[Electronics-Talk] Where Are We Now?, Income Generation

[S L Johnson]

Peter:

In my experience crowdfunding does not work for the blind.  I have seen it 
work for people with rare diseases or for children with disabilities or 
serious medical issues.  In the case of the blind, it does not work.  People 
are just not interested in us.  I think a large part of the problem is that 
they all assume that there are many organizations out there ready to give 
the blind everything we need.   .  The public just does not understand that 
for a blind person with other disabilities or serious health problems that 
are not eligible for vocational rehab cannot get the needed devices to make 
our lives easier.  I tried crowdfunding a few years ago when you suggested 
it to this list and was completely  unsuccessful.  I received many email 
messages saying exactly that.  People thought I could get anything I wanted 
from my state rehab so why was I trying to raise money.  I finally took my 
request down because nothing had happened with it.  I do not even remember 
which site I had used.  Vocational rehab should consider the necessity of 
upgrading our older equipment to be compatible with today's technology but 
they don't help retired seniors who obviously are living on a very low 
income.  We still want to live productive lives and keep up with technology 
changes just like our sighted friends and neighbors.  The older retired 
blind are forgotten.

Sandra Johnson
SLJohnson25 at comcast.net

-----Original Message----- 
From: Peter Donahue via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:49 PM
To: 'Ronald Smith' ; 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and 
appliances'
Cc: Peter Donahue
Subject: [Electronics-Talk] Where Are We Now?, Income Generation

Good afternoon everyone,

I wasn't going to jump into this thread but since my name was mentionedI'll 
bring everyone up-to-date on where we are now and share thoughts on income 
diversification.

First Mary and I found ourselves drawing away from the federation beginning 
in 2011. It began when we found ourselves no longer able to work with 
members in Texas and elsewhere. We did not renew our membership after 2013. 
An attempt to expel me in 2014 was made but since both of our memberships 
were no longer valid you can't very well expel someone who already left the 
organization on their own can you? I let Dr. Maurer and  President Riccobono 
know on no uncertain terms that such action was illegal and that the 
organization needs to better track the status of members to avoid charges 
being filed against it due to such careless action being taken by an 
affiliate. Enough of that!

One of our major concerns has surfaced in some of the previous messages 
concerning raising funds so blind individuals can address their needs as an 
alternative to the vocational rehabilitation program. I worked as a street 
musician in Boston and in Austin Texas from December of 1979 to August of 
1983. Back then I heard the same garbage from blind people who themselves 
didn't have the guts to find ways to meet their needs try to slam the 
efforts of one of their own to do the same. Busking is heavily promoted in 
San Antonio. An effort is being made to recruit buskers for our new year's 
eve celebration in the downtown area. They don't care if you're blind or 
sighted. If you have a talent and wish to participate in busking in our city 
as long as you follow the rules of the game you're perfectly free to do so. 
That should be the beginning and the end of the story right there!

Another issue we've seen is the unwillingness among the blind to investigate 
various income-producing vehicles the newest of these is Crowdfunding. I 
know of a blind person on another list that recently launched a crowdfunding 
site to raise funds to buy a new computer and assistive technology. If 
successful this guy will be able to skip the rehab mess and get on with his 
education and eventual employment. More of us must do the same.

We encouraged a number of blind individuals to explore professional 
networking as another way to raise funds for blindness-related and quality 
of life matters only to have our invitation declined. Some of these same 
individuals then criticized blind persons we know for engaging in such 
activities as busking. We already put members of our blind community, 
especially those we invited to explore other income-producing vehicles,  on 
notice that if they attack our efforts and those of other blind people to 
raise funding to address blindness-related needs or to enhance our quality 
of life without offering another income producing option they're walking on 
our fighting side and would do well not to go there.

Both of us personally witnessed at a number of national conventions members 
of various NFB Affiliates slam-dunk such income-producing vehicles as 
network marketing, street performing, and most recently crowdfunding. The 
individual who objected to this form of fundraising just referred to as 
another form of begging but failed to suggest an alternative. We like much 
of the work the federation is doing but will not tollerate any organization 
or its members whose actions stifle and destroy the drive and the wish to 
utilize all methods of income creation to address funding for personal and 
blindness-related issues by its members and other blindpersons.

There are some blind folks that have suggested the creation of a new 
organization built on the NFB philosophy but one that urges its members to 
pursue various means of income creation and stresses that a part of that 
philosophy is the belief that at the end of the day the individual is in 
charge and must take actions to fulfill their dreams and goals for their 
lives. Perhaps with a shift in income creation by blind individuals the need 
for such an organization will be unnecessary.

Now you know where we've been. I only posted this since my name was 
specifically mentioned and want to do myt busting while I was at it. Have a 
very merry Christmas everyone.

Peter Donahue



-----Original Message-----
From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
Behalf Of Ronald Smith via Electronics-Talk
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:27 PM
To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
Cc: Ronald Smith
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired people, 
There Are Ways To Fund It

David,

Peter Donahue was a Federationist 20 years ago.
I don't know about today; maybe he left or was kicked out...

ronsmith131 at gmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
To: "'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'"
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired people, 
There Are Ways To Fund It


> If busking is a way for sighted musicians to earn some money, why is
> it unacceptable for a blind musician to do the same?  I know it might
> look like begging, but it looks to me like a double standard to say
> it's OK for sighted folks, but horrible for blind folks to do the exact 
> same thing.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Andrews, David B (DEED) via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 8:33 AM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
> Cc: Andrews, David B (DEED)
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired
> people, There Are Ways To Fund It
>
> How do you know he is a Federationist ... I will say no more.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> David Andrews | Chief Technology Officer Minnesota Department of
> Employment and Economic Development State Services for the Blind
> 2200 University Ave West, Suite 240, St. Paul MN 55114
> Direct: 651-539-2294
> Web | Twitter | Facebook
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 5:20 AM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Gerald Levy <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired
> people, There Are Ways To Fund It
>
>
> It is absolutely astonishing to me that a Federationist would suggest
> that a blind person short on cash grovel on a street corner with
> fiddle and tin cup to raise enough money just to buy a smart phone.
> This is prcisely the type of behavior that reinforces the negative
> stereotype that is widely held by the general public that many blind
> people are just a bunch of lazy mendicants who are looking for a handout.
>
> Gerald
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Bramlett via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2017 1:11 AM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
> Cc: Ashley Bramlett
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired
> people, There Are Ways To Fund It
>
> Peter,
>
> good ideas and I was going to recommend that.
> I know the price for adaptive equipment is high and I'd have more
> things like a braillle display if it were affordable.
> I make do with what I have such as my old braille notetaker.
>
> However, if you really cannot afford a product and cannot get
> assistance from family, you can do what you suggested or there are
> usually assistive tech loans out there.
> I know virginia has some sort of low interest loan for adaptive tech.
> And also, there  might be help from NFB national or state affiliates.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Donahue via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:07 PM
> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
> Cc: Peter Donahue
> Subject: [Electronics-Talk] Smartphone for visually impaired people,
> There Are Ways To Fund It
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> There's always Busking, Crowdfunding, Dumpster diving,Network
> Marketing, and other ways to increase one's income to cover the cost
> of assistive technology without getting rehab involved. If you want it
> bad enough you'll find a way to raise funds to buy it. That's what you
> would need to do if you were sighted. Some of the ideas above even
> allow you to do a little community service in the process of
> increasing your income to cover these costs.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Michael Russillo via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 3:00 PM
> To: S L Johnson via Electronics-Talk
> Cc: Michael Russillo
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] FW: Smartphone for visually impaired
> people
>
> Amen to that; the blindness market is a smaller one--I know, I know,
> that's been hashed over time and again.  We should see if the company
> has an installment plan to pay for those tech items gradually;
> alternatively check with NFB for low-interest tech loans; just my 2 cents.
>
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 12/13/2017 3:26 PM, S L Johnson via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> Thanks for this information.  I got excited when I began to read
>> about a phone that I could use that was a smart phone with real easy
>> to feel buttons.  Then I got to the price.  Why do all the companies
>> making products for the blind price them so high that most of us
>> cannot afford them?  I know you will all say research and development
>> but the reality is that most blind people, especially retired seniors
>> who have to live on less than $760 per month, cannot afford it.  I
>> wish there was some way of making these products more affordable to
>> all of us.  A smart phone with GPS, OCR scanning and other helpful
>> apps would be a great help to all blind people but only those with
>> the financial resources will be able to have it.  The same is true
>> with the Braille notetakers.  All of these wonderful products will
>> never be in the hands of most of the blind because of their high
>> price.  I know it will never change but I wish it would because I
>> really could use this phone and a new Braille notetaker that is still
>> supported and up to date instead of used equipment that I can no
>> longer get repaired by companies who no longer support them.  I
>> apologize for venting but I am reallyfrustrated!
>>
>> Sandra Johnson
>> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:37 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>> Subject: [Electronics-Talk] FW: Smartphone for visually impaired
>> people
>>
>> Some people recently were asking about easy-to-use phones, so I
>> forward this
>> ad:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Irie-AT [mailto:sales at irie-at.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:31 AM
>> Subject: Smartphone for visually impaired people
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://irie-at.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbe22e0e299fe21f72
>> d
>> c7bd81&id=544bdebc61&e=5daf9aa555>
>> Image removed by sender. SmartVision 2 -the Smartphone for the
>> visually impaired
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>> Smartphones too difficult to see or too confusing to use?
>> SmartVision2 could be for you.
>>
>> SmartVision2 is the only smartphone designed specifically for people
>> with visual impairments. Complete with a high-contrast display,
>> speech input and feedback and even a tactile keypad and buttons,
>> SmartVision2 can adapt to your needs. And SmartVision2 is very easy to 
>> learn and use.
>>
>> <https://irie-at.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbe22e0e299fe21f72
>> d
>> c7bd81&id=bbc3dfb59c&e=5daf9aa555>
>> Learn More
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://irie-at.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbe22e0e299fe21f72
>> d
>> c7bd81&id=71639feb93&e=5daf9aa555>
>> Image removed by sender. John's Demo Room | SmartVision 2
>> demonstration video
>>
>>
>> Watch a demonstration video now!
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://irie-at.us4.list-manage.com/track/click?u=fbe22e0e299fe21f72
>> d
>> c7bd81&id=971befe084&e=5daf9aa555>
>> Image removed by sender. Image of the SmartVision 2 phone menu
>>
>>
>> SmartVision2 isnâ?Tt an app, itâ?Ts an entire Smartphone built from
>> the ground up. The ergonomics of the device, buttons and keypad are
>> all designed and located to maximize ease-of-use for visually
>> impaired people. And all menus and functions are made to be easy to
>> see and simple to navigate. Plus, full tactile and voice controls are
>> in place for non-visual users and for the convenience of visual users.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Premium boasts the addition of all of these great features! Guide
>> yourself with voice commands with speech feedback using Kapten GPS,
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>>
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