[Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do you have in your city?

Wed Jan 10 22:01:19 UTC 2018

Why would they need to re-install the APS?  Here in Phoenix, they just open 
up the device and adjust the volume.

Vince

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
To: "'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'" 
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Jim McCarthy" <jmccarthy at mdtap.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do 
you have in your city?

> So Jim, following up on your point, I once found myself in a meeting with
> advocates for these signals. I stated that we had one in Baltimore that
> really was very loud and that even for the blind who are to benefit from 
> it,
> it really is distracting. The response I got was that I was right about 
> that
> one but that it clearly had been installed incorrectly. Well, they are not
> going to reinstall it and the installers are not experts in blindness, 
> blind
> people or any of the rest of it. In the best practices for installation,
> many of the APS units will have an arrow that vibrates, one for each 
> street
> served by the APS. Best practices are that these point directly across the
> street for which it serves. It often has been my experience though that 
> they
> are not perfectly aligned so one needs to use traffic alignment skills to
> achieve this purpose. Also, Dave's point always needs to be stressed. 
> Where
> the signals exist, they are not to tell one when it is safe to cross; they
> certainly don't assure a safe crossing either. All they can do is tell the
> pedestrian that the cycle has reached the point when it is appropriate to
> cross. A blind traveler still needs to use the traffic monitoring skills 
> she
> has prior to crossing.
> Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jim Barbour via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:48 AM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
> Cc: Jim Barbour
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
> you have in your city?
>
> I would add that many blind pedestrians feel hampered, not helped, but
> APSes.  It masks the traffic noise that is the really reliable way to
> determine when it is safe to cross the street.
>
> The appeal of an app is that you can easily decide when you want to hear 
> the
> status of the light, and when you want to hear the traffic noise.
>
> Jim
>
> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 02:42:53PM +0000, Andrews, David B (DEED) via
> Electronics-Talk wrote:
>> An APS "never" tells you when it is "safe" to cross an intersection. It
> can only tell you the state of the signals.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> David Andrews | Chief Technology Officer Minnesota Department of
>> Employment and Economic Development State Services for the Blind
>> 2200 University Ave West, Suite 240, St. Paul MN 55114
>> Direct: 651-539-2294
>> Web | Twitter | Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:59 AM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Gerald Levy <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
> you have in your city?
>>
>>
>> But what about the majority of blind pedestrians who do not own smart
> phones?  How would they benefit from an app that could alert a smart phone
> user when it is safe to cross an intersection, even if such an app could
> even be developed in the first place?  The traffic signal would still need
> an audible alert so that it would benefit all blind pedestrians and not 
> just
> those with smart phones in order to comply with the ADA, regardless of the
> expense to the municipality.
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:29 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
> you have in your city?
>>
>> Hi Jim.
>> I also live on a quieter street that crosses a very busy one, and I had
> the exact problem you describe--figuring out a lull in traffic from when I
> had the light.  It's also an offset intersection, with a lot of turning
> traffic.
>> As I said, I had to fight hard to get an APS there, but, every time I was
> thinking of giving up, I'd misjudge the light, and I'd grit my teeth and 
> go
> back to the battle.  I should not have to risk my life, literally, to 
> cross
> the street.  Well, no more than anyone else does. To heck with what it 
> cost
> the county.  I pay taxes, and my life has value in itself.
>>
>> I have been wondering for years if it would be practical to develop a
> smart phone app that would say when the walk sign was on.  It would have 
> to
> be absolutely real-time, and reliable.  But, if it could be done, it ought
> to be a lot cheaper than APS's are now. And maybe there's a way to make it
> work with any traffic light one encounters.  Do you think such a thing 
> could
> work?
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2018 2:28 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> Cc: Jim McCarthy
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
> you have in your city?
>>
>> Tracy,
>> I do think that the end point is what you suggest, to have one at every
> intersection that has a traffic light. When there is new development, they
> should be put in at the get go as you suggest they are. In other cases, I 
> do
> think the more complicated intersections should be first; I think that if 
> a
> traffic light needs repair or replacement, an accessible signal should 
> take
> its place; and finally, someday there will be accessible signals at every
> intersection. I did not always think that it needed to be an equality 
> thing
> but that is the way I am headed now also. I live on a north south street
> that is not very busy. It is a plus intersection though so my street 
> crosses
> a very busy street, one of the more busy in that part of the city and one
> that crosses the entire city toward its north end. The busy street is not
> even all that wide so the intersection is not geometrically complicated. 
> It
> does not have an audible signal but might benefit from one. The reason is
> that there is often not traffic on my street crossing. There are some gaps
> on the busy street but a blind travelers is left guessing, "is there a gap
> because the light is favorable?" Perhaps, it is just a traffic lag and one
> may need to race across. Having an audible traffic signal would take away
> the guess work. Is this the most important intersection in the city for a
> signal? Probably not but there would be benefit in having one. I have 
> lived
> in that neighborhood for many years and feel safe crossing so I have not
> asked for this yet.
>> Jim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 11:14 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
> you have in your city?
>>
>> Thanks Jim.  I hadn't thought much about what you bring up.  What 
>> criteria
> do you think they should use?  Put in an accessible signal at the most
> complicated intersections, and, when those are covered, move on to less
> complicated ones?  Should the goal be to have an accessible signal 
> wherever
> there is a crossing signal?  I didn't used to think so, but now I'm 
> starting
> to think that I have the same right to know the status of the light as my
> sighted neighbors have.
>>
>> I had to fight tooth and claw to get the first signal in my county.  I 
>> had
> to get my state assemblywoman involved, and threaten the county with an 
> ADA
> lawsuit.  But now, a few years later, they have put in 2 more signals on 
> the
> main drag all on their own.  They seem to be putting them where there is 
> new
> development--new businesses going in.  I'm not sure what their criteria 
> are,
> but I am glad to have them.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 10:23 AM
>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>> Cc: Jim McCarthy
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
> you have in your city?
>>
>> I have been reading this thread with some interest. It seems to me that
> much of the time, the answer will be like Mike has said here that there is
> some certain number in his area and he knows this because he asked for and
> got their installation. What I have not noticed in the thread is a reason
> for knowing how many there are. This is information a city transportation 
> or
> traffic department probably has but I think the number a jurisdiction has
> does not matter very much. The trend of installation is more important to
> indicate progress in the installation. It still bothers me that many
> jurisdictions react as Fort Collins did for Mike, that is that they 
> install
> them in areas that blind people frequent or only when a blind person or
> enough of us make the request. The result is that in many of the places
> these are installed, they do not offer actual assistance to blind 
> travelers
> and in places where they would offer that help, they are not installed
> because there is not an entity expected to be frequented by people who are
>> blind or because no requests have been made.    I suppose though that if
> the
>> trigger for installation is that there has been a request, I am glad Fort
> Collins has responded as they have. In many instances, the answer is that
> they are expensive so we can't or won't install. To me the right approach 
> is
> to have as a part of a long term transportation plan the goal of 
> installing
> some number per year. It also strikes me as best to rank intersections 
> based
> on criteria so that the really complicated ones receive the devices also.
>> Jim McCarthy
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mike Sedmak via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 5:25 PM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> Cc: Mike Sedmak
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
> you have in your city?
>>
>> We have five in my corner of Fort Collins, CO.  I called the city traffic
> operations engineer and asked him to install them on all the crossings I
> frequent.  I would recommend asking for them in your area if you like 
> them.
>>
>>
>> Our city ops said they are relatively expensive, so they only install 
>> them
> when requested.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone, please forgive the typos.
>>
>> > On Jan 4, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Andy Baracco via Electronics-Talk
>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > Interestingly enough, I don't think that we have that many in the
>> > entire
>> city of Los Angeles.
>> >
>> > Andy
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike via Electronics-Talk"
>> > <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> > To: <Electronics-Talk at nfbnet.org>
>> > Cc: "Mike" <mrmikie273 at gmail.com>
>> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 2:29 AM
>> > Subject: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals
>> > do you
>> have in your city?
>> >
>> >
>> >> How many accessible pedestrian signals do you have in your city or
>> >> area? In the greater Daytona Beach Florida we now have 32 of them.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>>
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