[Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do you have in your city?

[cheez]

Here in Phoenix, the volume on the APS adjust according to traffic noise.
Which can be a pain sometimes.  For if there isn't any traffic, finding that 
pole can be a bit tricky.

Vince

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrews,David B (DEED) via Electronics-Talk" 
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
To: "Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances" 
<electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Andrews, David B (DEED)" <david.b.andrews at state.mn.us>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do 
you have in your city?


> Andy:
>
> Quiet APS's may be local to you.  In my area volumes vary greatly, some 
> loud, some quiet. I suspect it depends on how they are adjusted.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> David Andrews | Chief Technology Officer
> Minnesota Department of Employment and Economic Development
> State Services for the Blind
> 2200 University Ave West, Suite 240, St. Paul MN 55114
> Direct: 651-539-2294
> Web | Twitter | Facebook
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Andy Baracco via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 2:08 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances 
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Andy Baracco <wq6r at socal.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do 
> you have in your city?
>
> There are many configurations for APS, including the familiar chirp and 
> coocoo, talking, vibrating, and something that sounds kind of like a 
> machine gun, but it is not loud, in fact you have to be standing next to 
> the pole to hear it. It should be noted that these devices only tell you 
> when the light is green. You still need to have sufficient mobility skills 
> to cross the street safely.
>
> Andy
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk" <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'"
> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Jim McCarthy" <jmccarthy at mdtap.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
> you have in your city?
>
>
>> So Jim, following up on your point, I once found myself in a meeting with
>> advocates for these signals. I stated that we had one in Baltimore that
>> really was very loud and that even for the blind who are to benefit from
>> it,
>> it really is distracting. The response I got was that I was right about
>> that
>> one but that it clearly had been installed incorrectly. Well, they are 
>> not
>> going to reinstall it and the installers are not experts in blindness,
>> blind
>> people or any of the rest of it. In the best practices for installation,
>> many of the APS units will have an arrow that vibrates, one for each
>> street
>> served by the APS. Best practices are that these point directly across 
>> the
>> street for which it serves. It often has been my experience though that
>> they
>> are not perfectly aligned so one needs to use traffic alignment skills to
>> achieve this purpose. Also, Dave's point always needs to be stressed.
>> Where
>> the signals exist, they are not to tell one when it is safe to cross; 
>> they
>> certainly don't assure a safe crossing either. All they can do is tell 
>> the
>> pedestrian that the cycle has reached the point when it is appropriate to
>> cross. A blind traveler still needs to use the traffic monitoring skills
>> she
>> has prior to crossing.
>> Jim
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jim Barbour via Electronics-Talk
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 9:48 AM
>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>> Cc: Jim Barbour
>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals do
>> you have in your city?
>>
>> I would add that many blind pedestrians feel hampered, not helped, but
>> APSes.  It masks the traffic noise that is the really reliable way to
>> determine when it is safe to cross the street.
>>
>> The appeal of an app is that you can easily decide when you want to hear
>> the
>> status of the light, and when you want to hear the traffic noise.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 02:42:53PM +0000, Andrews, David B (DEED) via
>> Electronics-Talk wrote:
>>> An APS "never" tells you when it is "safe" to cross an intersection. It
>> can only tell you the state of the signals.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Andrews | Chief Technology Officer Minnesota Department of
>>> Employment and Economic Development State Services for the Blind
>>> 2200 University Ave West, Suite 240, St. Paul MN 55114
>>> Direct: 651-539-2294
>>> Web | Twitter | Facebook
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Gerald Levy via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 7:59 AM
>>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Gerald Levy <bwaylimited at verizon.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals 
>>> do
>> you have in your city?
>>>
>>>
>>> But what about the majority of blind pedestrians who do not own smart
>> phones?  How would they benefit from an app that could alert a smart 
>> phone
>> user when it is safe to cross an intersection, even if such an app could
>> even be developed in the first place?  The traffic signal would still 
>> need
>> an audible alert so that it would benefit all blind pedestrians and not
>> just
>> those with smart phones in order to comply with the ADA, regardless of 
>> the
>> expense to the municipality.
>>>
>>> Gerald
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2018 8:29 AM
>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals 
>>> do
>> you have in your city?
>>>
>>> Hi Jim.
>>> I also live on a quieter street that crosses a very busy one, and I had
>> the exact problem you describe--figuring out a lull in traffic from when 
>> I
>> had the light.  It's also an offset intersection, with a lot of turning
>> traffic.
>>> As I said, I had to fight hard to get an APS there, but, every time I 
>>> was
>> thinking of giving up, I'd misjudge the light, and I'd grit my teeth and
>> go
>> back to the battle.  I should not have to risk my life, literally, to
>> cross
>> the street.  Well, no more than anyone else does. To heck with what it
>> cost
>> the county.  I pay taxes, and my life has value in itself.
>>>
>>> I have been wondering for years if it would be practical to develop a
>> smart phone app that would say when the walk sign was on.  It would have
>> to
>> be absolutely real-time, and reliable.  But, if it could be done, it 
>> ought
>> to be a lot cheaper than APS's are now. And maybe there's a way to make 
>> it
>> work with any traffic light one encounters.  Do you think such a thing
>> could
>> work?
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2018 2:28 PM
>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>> Cc: Jim McCarthy
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals 
>>> do
>> you have in your city?
>>>
>>> Tracy,
>>> I do think that the end point is what you suggest, to have one at every
>> intersection that has a traffic light. When there is new development, 
>> they
>> should be put in at the get go as you suggest they are. In other cases, I
>> do
>> think the more complicated intersections should be first; I think that if
>> a
>> traffic light needs repair or replacement, an accessible signal should
>> take
>> its place; and finally, someday there will be accessible signals at every
>> intersection. I did not always think that it needed to be an equality
>> thing
>> but that is the way I am headed now also. I live on a north south street
>> that is not very busy. It is a plus intersection though so my street
>> crosses
>> a very busy street, one of the more busy in that part of the city and one
>> that crosses the entire city toward its north end. The busy street is not
>> even all that wide so the intersection is not geometrically complicated.
>> It
>> does not have an audible signal but might benefit from one. The reason is
>> that there is often not traffic on my street crossing. There are some 
>> gaps
>> on the busy street but a blind travelers is left guessing, "is there a 
>> gap
>> because the light is favorable?" Perhaps, it is just a traffic lag and 
>> one
>> may need to race across. Having an audible traffic signal would take away
>> the guess work. Is this the most important intersection in the city for a
>> signal? Probably not but there would be benefit in having one. I have
>> lived
>> in that neighborhood for many years and feel safe crossing so I have not
>> asked for this yet.
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 11:14 AM
>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals 
>>> do
>> you have in your city?
>>>
>>> Thanks Jim.  I hadn't thought much about what you bring up.  What
>>> criteria
>> do you think they should use?  Put in an accessible signal at the most
>> complicated intersections, and, when those are covered, move on to less
>> complicated ones?  Should the goal be to have an accessible signal
>> wherever
>> there is a crossing signal?  I didn't used to think so, but now I'm
>> starting
>> to think that I have the same right to know the status of the light as my
>> sighted neighbors have.
>>>
>>> I had to fight tooth and claw to get the first signal in my county.  I
>>> had
>> to get my state assemblywoman involved, and threaten the county with an
>> ADA
>> lawsuit.  But now, a few years later, they have put in 2 more signals on
>> the
>> main drag all on their own.  They seem to be putting them where there is
>> new
>> development--new businesses going in.  I'm not sure what their criteria
>> are,
>> but I am glad to have them.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jim McCarthy via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 10:23 AM
>>> To: 'Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances'
>>> Cc: Jim McCarthy
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals 
>>> do
>> you have in your city?
>>>
>>> I have been reading this thread with some interest. It seems to me that
>> much of the time, the answer will be like Mike has said here that there 
>> is
>> some certain number in his area and he knows this because he asked for 
>> and
>> got their installation. What I have not noticed in the thread is a reason
>> for knowing how many there are. This is information a city transportation
>> or
>> traffic department probably has but I think the number a jurisdiction has
>> does not matter very much. The trend of installation is more important to
>> indicate progress in the installation. It still bothers me that many
>> jurisdictions react as Fort Collins did for Mike, that is that they
>> install
>> them in areas that blind people frequent or only when a blind person or
>> enough of us make the request. The result is that in many of the places
>> these are installed, they do not offer actual assistance to blind
>> travelers
>> and in places where they would offer that help, they are not installed
>> because there is not an entity expected to be frequented by people who 
>> are
>>> blind or because no requests have been made.    I suppose though that if
>> the
>>> trigger for installation is that there has been a request, I am glad 
>>> Fort
>> Collins has responded as they have. In many instances, the answer is that
>> they are expensive so we can't or won't install. To me the right approach
>> is
>> to have as a part of a long term transportation plan the goal of
>> installing
>> some number per year. It also strikes me as best to rank intersections
>> based
>> on criteria so that the really complicated ones receive the devices also.
>>> Jim McCarthy
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Electronics-Talk [mailto:electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Mike Sedmak via Electronics-Talk
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 5:25 PM
>>> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances
>>> Cc: Mike Sedmak
>>> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals 
>>> do
>> you have in your city?
>>>
>>> We have five in my corner of Fort Collins, CO.  I called the city 
>>> traffic
>> operations engineer and asked him to install them on all the crossings I
>> frequent.  I would recommend asking for them in your area if you like
>> them.
>>>
>>>
>>> Our city ops said they are relatively expensive, so they only install
>>> them
>> when requested.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone, please forgive the typos.
>>>
>>> > On Jan 4, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Andy Baracco via Electronics-Talk
>>> <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Interestingly enough, I don't think that we have that many in the
>>> > entire
>>> city of Los Angeles.
>>> >
>>> > Andy
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike via Electronics-Talk"
>>> > <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> > To: <Electronics-Talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Cc: "Mike" <mrmikie273 at gmail.com>
>>> > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2018 2:29 AM
>>> > Subject: [Electronics-Talk] How many accessible pedestrian signals
>>> > do you
>>> have in your city?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> How many accessible pedestrian signals do you have in your city or
>>> >> area? In the greater Daytona Beach Florida we now have 32 of them.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you
>>> >>
>>> >> Mike
>>> >>
>
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