[Electronics-Talk] Battery Back-up?

Aaron Spears valiant8086 at gmail.com
Sat Oct 15 14:00:12 UTC 2022 

Hit me up if you're after a power station, have been researching 
extensively. I can either sell you mine which only has about 15 
discharges on it so I can buy a bigger one or can at least show you some 
of the options I think are nice, although I haven't tried anything 
besides my River yet. One thing, if you want to return one the process 
can be a pain in the butt to ship it because of laws about shipping 
products with Li Ion batteries. Not sure about the newer LiFePo4 battery 
packs. A friend recently returned a River Mini, which I now don't 
recommend that you get due to his experiences, and it shipped Fedex. The 
company had to schedule for a Fedex truck to come pick it up but they 
had special instructions for the labels to make sure it was clearly 
marked as being a Li Ion battery product.


My river works well, it's the River mini that's apparently a mess. He 
couldn't get it to shut off lol. It'd beep but still be on. One reliable 
way to turn it off was to run a heavy load off it to pull more than 1200 
watts which is all it can do. without tripping. That of course would 
trip it and it would then shut down. The problem was that somehow the 
battery would be at 0 percent in that case even though it only took a 
couple of seconds. It would start at 0 percent and do a complete charge 
cycle. Also for some reason River Mini doesn't have a USB C port. USB 
ports are a lot more efficient on a battery pack than AC inverters are, 
so use USB when ever possible, especially if that lets you keep the AC 
inverter completely turned off. For most products they actually use DC 
power for their internals. So You're converting from DC on the battery 
pack to AC at the plug in, then the product you're powering is 
converting back to DC again for the motors and circuit boards and what 
ever else they have internally. The inverter efficiency is somewhere 
around 85 percent for most power stations.


You can take the rated capacity of the station and figure some things 
out with it. For instance Ecoflow River is 288wh if you just get a 
regular River and not a bigger or smaller one. WH means watt hours. It's 
a measurement of how long the battery pack (not necessarily the whole 
power station) can output 1 watt. E.g. in this case, 1 watt can be 
output for 288 hours. However, it's simpler to ask how many watts it can 
push in 1 hour which is always the same number, 288. So in 1 hour it can 
dump 288watts from the battery pack before it goes flat. The length of 
time doesn't really mean much other than helping you know what numbers 
to use for calculation. Most people who bother figuring things out use 1 
hour.


However, the inverter efficiency needs to come into play here. If you 
assume 85 percent efficiency. a load of exactly 288watts on a 288wh 
battery pack through an 85 percent efficient inverter... Let's get 85 
percent of 288. 288*0.85=244.8 wh using the inverter. But you plugged in 
a 288watt product. How long can it run? Well, I'm not sure how to 
calculate that but it's 0.85 hours obviously. If it was 0.75 we could 
easily say 45 minutes. So a little over 45 minutes.


Ecoflow products are strange among power stations in their extreme power 
output capability for the smaller packs. The little River mini can push 
300w reliably, surge up to 600w, and for certain connected products like 
heating elements that work more efficiently with higher amperage and 
don't care if the voltage drops as a result, they can run 1200w products 
with the x-boost feature. This mostly will be a hot plate, perhaps a 
radiator heater. Some keurig brewers might work although my bigger one 
won't even run our K-Duo. The River is willing to try, but the K-Duo 
trips itself when the voltage drops.


For My river (not the mini), it has 600watts reliably, 1200 surge, and 
1800 with the x-boost, we already mentioned 288wh capacity. So I can run 
a vacuum cleaner that pulls 900watts on my river. It just won't run at 
full speed because after the 1200w surge is finished, about 1 second, 
it's only gonna get 600w although the voltage and amps will change a bit 
because x-boost is trying to make it still work out. Here's the problem 
with  that, just how long can a 288wh battery pack run a product that's 
pulling 600watts? Heh, not very long. 244.8/600=0.40 hours so definitely 
under half an hour. Maybe 20 minutes?


I tried it. It runs Dewalt shop vac for around 25 minutes. Same for high 
powered Shark Rocket Duo. Both run slower on the River but are plenty 
fast enough to still work just fine. We do have a battery powered Shark 
Rocket duo too so running the electrick Shark on my battery pack is kind 
of stupid but just knowing the River can handle it is interesting.



Most refrigerators can start on the River. Take the one in my room. It 
needs about 500w to spool up and settles in at about 90w. River can 
handle that, but let's look at the total time it can run. 
244.8wh/90=2.72 hours, almost 2 hours and 45 minutes? Also the power 
draw from the compressor might go up after a while of being on which 
would drop that significantly. But on the other hand, if the 
Refrigerator isn't trying to catch up and thus running continuously, it 
will be shutting off and extend that time as a result.


Anyway, hope that info is useful for somebody. Mine won't start our 
small Air Compressor, which admittedly is quite a  lot to ask - it's an 
Ingersoll-Rand 100 percent duty cycle pro model and is not supposed to 
be easy to start. I find 288wh capacity to not really be enough when I 
want to use it let alone the max output being too low to start the air 
compressor, so am looking to upgrade if I find something a little more 
affordable.
































Cheers:
Aaron Spears, AKA Valiant8086 General Partner at Valiant Galaxy Associates "we make (VERY GOOD AUDIOGAMES) for the blind comunity" http://valiantGalaxy.com

On 10/15/2022 2:22 AM, Amanda Lee via Electronics-Talk wrote:
> I have a few different power banks and although I do like Anchor products, none of mine are Anchor.  As long as the power bank you buy has at least one USB port, then you can charge an iPhone on one which is about 26000MA or less but I think this is a good amount to look for so that you can obtain more than one charge for an Smart Phone.
>
> I have likewise been looking at the Ecoflow models.  They have even higher capacity models which you can run your refrigerator on for quite awhile.  Solar panels are what drives up the cost of these units.  However, at least if you have no power for a couple of weeks due to a hurricane or similar, then you have some of your creature comforts still available.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electronics-Talk <electronics-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Matthew Chao via Electronics-Talk
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 9:39 PM
> To: Discussion of accessible home electronics and appliances <electronics-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Matthew Chao <mattchao at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [Electronics-Talk] Battery Back-up?
>
> Thanks for that info.  I'm also looking for some heavy-duty battery backup/charging.--Matthew Chao
>
>
>
> On 10/14/2022 6:14 PM, Aaron Spears via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>>
>> I don't, but I do know a fair bit about power banks and power stations.
>> What exactly would you like to accomplish? If you only want to charge
>> your iPhone a few times, a power bank will do that. Anker has some cool
>> ones supporting USB Quick Charge via a USB A port and USB Power Delivery
>> via a USB C port. If you want an inverter that provides a 120 AC plug
>> capable of hundreds of watts of output to run things like a mini fridge
>> or a desktop computer and the like then you're after a power station.
>> Power stations usually run a lot more money and are physically larger. I
>> have an Es-Ecoflow River which has 3 AC outlets on it, 3 USB A ports and
>> one USB C port, a 12v car plug and some other things. And if you buy
>> solar panels you can charge it with that. Cost is around $240 when it's
>> on sale like coming right up quick on Prime day or perhaps Black Friday.
>> What's cool about Ecoflow is their power stations all have WiFi and can
>> be accessed using an app where you can check the charge level and how
>> much power is being drawn and such.
>>
>>
>> I think you were mostly thinking about power banks though. I generally
>> stick to Anker for power banks. They have excellent customer service and
>> good reliability.
>>
>>
>> 40,000 m-ah power bank:
>>
>> Amazon.com: Anker Portable Charger, 347 Power Bank (PowerCore 40K),
>> 40,000mAh Battery Pack with USB-C High-Speed Charging, for MacBook,
>> iPhone 13 / Pro/Pro Max/Mini, Samsung Galaxy, iPad, AirPods, and More :
>> Cell Phones & Accessories
>> <https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Portable-Double-Speed-Recharging/dp/B09VP9QJSS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=725FFLBFH2LK&keywords=anker+power+bank&qid=1665784731&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0Ljc4IiwicXNhIjoiNC40NyIsInFzcCI6IjMuOTkifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=anker+power+ba%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc>
>>
>> $99, and a coupon knocking $20 off that making the total $79. You get 2
>> USB A ports and 2 USB C ports. It claims 8.8 charges of iPhone 13 pro.
>>
>> 20,000 m/ah power bank
>>
>> Amazon.com: Anker 335 Power Bank (PowerCore 20K), 20W Portable Charger
>> with USB-C Fast Charging, Works for iPhone 13/12 Series, Samsung, iPad
>> Pro, AirPods, Apple Watch, and More. : Cell Phones & Accessories
>> <https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Portable-Charger-Charging/dp/B09SFS9J2K/ref=sr_1_4?crid=725FFLBFH2LK&keywords=anker%2Bpower%2Bbank&qid=1665784731&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0Ljc4IiwicXNhIjoiNC40NyIsInFzcCI6IjMuOTkifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=anker%2Bpower%2Bba%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-4&th=1>
>>
>> On sale right now to $34.99 for Amazon prime customers. You get @ USB A
>> and 1 USB C. The USB C can do 20w in or out. You use that port to charge
>> the battery itself. It claims 4.3 charges of iPhone 13 pro. It doesn't
>> include a charger. You need a USB C to USB C cable. If you have an
>> android phone you probably have the cable and charger you need. Same for
>> the above option.
>>
>> 10,000 m/ah power bank
>>
>> Amazon.com: Anker Portable Charger, USB-C Portable Charger 10000mAh with
>> 20W Power Delivery, 523 Power Bank (PowerCore Slim 10K PD) for iPhone 13
>> Series/iPhone 12 Series, S10, Pixel 4, and More : Cell Phones &
>> Accessories <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08LH26PFT/ref=emc_b_5_t>
>>
>> $39.99, with optional coupon to knock off 20 percent making the cost
>> about $32.19, Same as the 20,000 but with half the capacity. Ports are
>> the same. it claims charges iPhone 12 twice I think I'd go for the
>> 20,000 if I was able to get the on sale price.
>>
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>> Cheers:
>> Aaron Spears, AKA Valiant8086 General Partner at Valiant Galaxy
>> Associates "we make (VERY GOOD AUDIOGAMES) for the blind comunity"
>> http://valiantGalaxy.com
>>
>> On 10/14/2022 10:31 AM, Donald Moore via Electronics-Talk wrote:
>>> Before I realized that I'd need one, one of the Kim Komando newsletters
>>> spoke of a battery back-up on Amazon that could charge two iPhones on one
>>> charge.  She had a link to it, but I didn't save it.  Do any of you
>>> know of
>>> the back-up she was talking about?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
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