[Faith-talk] More about homosexuality.

Mon Nov 10 08:39:41 UTC 2008

Yes, and her view also accuses God of not being "progressive" in His thinking.  That makes no sense.

I say that because all any of us is doing is trying to live by God's standards, not any we as humans created...but the standards God gave us in His word.

+-+-+-

   There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. 
 1 Samuel 2:2
~~~

Alan D Wheeler
awheeler at neb.rr.com
IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com
Skype: redwheel1
Check me out on the Q, Fridays from 10 AM to 1 PM eastern time at www.theqonline.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "BMW" <lynnwhite51 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] More about homosexuality.

> well, Beth, your view goes against the old and new Testament.  Nobody is 
> being a bigot or anything like that.
> 
> What do you do with the verses that speak against adultery, drunkardness, 
> slanderers, fornicators?  Paul says that all of have fit into one of these 
> categories before we were forgiven.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 2:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] More about homosexuality.
> 
> 
>> Allan, this article is severely biased and is hurtful to homosexual
>> friends of mine.  Thank God they didn't read this.  To be honest, I
>> love my friends, all my friends heterosexual and homosexual.  Every
>> kid has the right to two loving parents, but not necessarily a mom and
>> a dad.  Gay couples and lesbian couples are still adoptable couples.
>> I've seen a lesbian couple that adopted two Cree First Nations
>> children.  I saw a gay couple adopt special needs twins who had
>> addiction problems.  This country needs to be more progressive and
>> stop attacking homosexuals because they are homosexuals.  Before you
>> know it, Allan, this country will put blind and visually impaired
>> people as well as cognitively disabled people in their places: along
>> with the homosexuals, below sighted and heterosexual people.  Before
>> you know it, Allan, African Americans will be kicked out of office and
>> there will be an assassination attempt on Barack Obama, who I hope
>> will reign for eight long and healthy years.  Please watch what you're
>> saying!  We're all Christians on this list!  Can't we accept others'
>> beliefs and opinions here?  I'm not trying to be psychic and prophetic
>> here, but please understand that I am very concerned that this nation
>> is going to fall down like Rome did and we won't have a very healthy
>> end if you know what I mean.  And not everybody believes in God.  And
>> God loves everybody, and even though it is written that homosexuality
>> is a sin, attacking homosexuals who are not atracted and refuse to be
>> attracted to the opposite sex is wrong.  We cannot an will not attack
>> others because they are a different brand of homo sapiens sapiens.
>> Beth
>>
>> On 11/9/08, Alan Wheeler <awheeler at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>> I went to www.biblegateway.com to see what I could find about 
>>> homosexuality
>>> and the bible.  This was among the resources.  So, again I say, and this 
>>> is
>>> my last comment on the subject, if you disagree that marriage is only for
>>> men and women, then your argument is with God.  It's in His book.
>>>
>>> http://www.faithfacts.org/christ-and-the-culture/gay-rights#marriage
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Sanctity of Marriage
>>> In recent years, the homosexual movement has centered on giving
>>> marriage-like benefits to gay couples. Many in the culture have 
>>> mistakenly
>>> concluded that marriage is merely an institution for the convenience of
>>> adults. In actuality, marriage is the bedrock institution for culture to
>>> sustain itself through having and nurturing children. There are
>>> complementary aspects to a man and woman that are important to the
>>> instutution of marriage which go beyond the obvious physical attributes.
>>> There are things that a man needs that can only be provided by a woman, 
>>> and
>>> vice versa.
>>>
>>> These complementary aspects are important to the relationship of the 
>>> couple
>>> itself, as well as to the children. One does not have to appeal to 
>>> religion
>>> to instinctively understand this. Yet statistics verify the structure of 
>>> the
>>> traditional family as the approach to raising children that gives the 
>>> best
>>> measurable results. The overwhelming body of social science research 
>>> agrees
>>> that children do best when raised in homes with married, opposite-sex
>>> parents. Every child has the right to both a mom and a dad.
>>>
>>> Yet we cannot divorce the institution of marriage from its theological
>>> roots. We acknowledge that marriage is an institution given by God 
>>> (Genesis
>>> 2:24). The Creator of the Universe established the relationship between a
>>> man and a woman, thus it is a divine institution, not a human one. To 
>>> confer
>>> marriage-like rights to gays is not the prerogative of people (Matthew
>>> 19:6). (This includes civil unions or domestic partnerships, as they are
>>> merely marriage by other names.) Defining marriage is the prerogative of
>>> God. Whatever may tend to undermine the institution of marriage would 
>>> also
>>> undermine the authority of God, as well as hurt society.
>>>
>>> Liberals may argue, "Why should we arbitrarily select only heterosexual
>>> couples for marriage? What can it hurt if two homosexuals want to marry?"
>>> The answer is surprisingly simple. The institution of marriage between 
>>> and
>>> man a woman is not, in fact, arbitrary. It's purpose is clear and of 
>>> utmost
>>> importance to society.
>>>
>>> David Orland in an article entitled "The Deceit of Gay Marriage" puts it
>>> very well. He says:
>>>
>>>   To justify giving privileges or exemptions or subsidies to some 
>>> particular
>>> group in society, the benefit of doing so for society at large must first 
>>> be
>>> shown. With heterosexual marriage, the case is clear enough. Heterosexual
>>> marriage is a matter of genuine social interest because the family is
>>> essential to society's reproduction. The crux of my argument, in other
>>> words, was that married couples receive the benefits they do, not because
>>> the state is interested in promoting romantic love, or because the Bible
>>> says so or because of the influence of special interest groups but rather
>>> because the next generation is something that is and should be of 
>>> interest
>>> to all of us. And, by definition, this is not a case that can be made for
>>> homosexual unions. To that degree, the attempt to turn the question of
>>> domestic partnership into a debate about fairness falls flat.
>>>
>>>   The more persistent supporters of domestic partnership will of course
>>> respond to this argument by pointing to the case in which homosexual
>>> partners adopt children or, in the case of lesbians, undergo artificial
>>> insemination. The intention here is to show that the nuclear family is 
>>> found
>>> even among homosexual couples and that, to that extent, homosexual unions 
>>> do
>>> indeed meet the same criterion of social interest as heterosexual ones 
>>> and
>>> thus should be granted legal status. It is a weak argument and one that
>>> ultimately back-fires on those who employ it. This is for two reasons:
>>>
>>>   First, adoption by homosexual couples is still exceedingly rare and the
>>> law-though many are surprised to learn this-is aimed at the general case. 
>>> To
>>> confer legal benefits on the entire class of would-be homosexual spouses
>>> just because some very small minority of this class approximates the 
>>> pattern
>>> of the nuclear family would be a bit like admitting all applicants to a
>>> select university on the grounds that a few of them had been shown to 
>>> meet
>>> the entrance requirements.
>>>
>>>   Second, the right of this small minority to the benefits of marriage is
>>> dubious in the extreme. Homosexual "families" of whatever type are always
>>> and necessarily parasitic on heterosexual ones.
>>>
>>> Every child has the right to a mom and a dad. See 5 Reasons Why Same-Sex
>>> Marriage Harms Children.
>>>
>>> But homosexuals not only want fair treatment, they are pushing for "Super
>>> Rights." According the Paul Cameron of the Family Research Institute:
>>>
>>>   "Every member of society has a duty to contribute to the commonwealth. 
>>> Yet
>>> the empirical evidence indicates that those who engage in homosexuality 
>>> 1)
>>> contribute less and cost more in goods and services, 2) 
>>> disproportionately
>>> disrupt social functioning, and 3) have few children while being more apt 
>>> to
>>> harm them. Thus, homosexual practioners not only fail to 'pay for their
>>> keep,' but by their negative influence on children, cloud society's 
>>> future.
>>>
>>>   Those who engage in homosexuality seek what they say are 'gay rights." 
>>> In
>>> reality, they are demanding Super Rights. Super Rights are those 
>>> privileges
>>> that allow one to ovverride the inalienable rights of other citizens, 
>>> such
>>> as freedom of speech and association. These Super Rights-which are 
>>> conferred
>>> by 'non-discrimination,' 'hate crime,' and 'hate speech' laws-allow
>>> homosexuals, if they so choose, to endanger or punish those who would
>>> exercise their associational rights to avoid them or protect their 
>>> children
>>> from them.
>>>
>>>   As an example, empirical studies to date indicate that a male teacher 
>>> who
>>> practices homosexuality is the most likely kind of teacher to sexually
>>> molest students. A principal knowing this may not want to hire a teacher 
>>> who
>>> declares his homosexual interests. But if that teacher wants the job, his
>>> Super Rights trump the associational rights of the principal as well as 
>>> the
>>> right of students not to experience extra risk (especially since safety 
>>> is
>>> part of their right to life). Parents renting out one side of their 
>>> duplex
>>> may not want to place their children at risk by renting to a gay couple. 
>>> But
>>> if-even on a whim - the homosexuals want the duplex, their Super Rights
>>> trump the property and associational rights of the parents as well as 
>>> their
>>> children's right not to be exposed to potential molestation.
>>>
>>>   The Super Rights of homosexual practitioners also squelch the right of
>>> others to freedom of speech. If a broadcaster opines that homosexual sex 
>>> is
>>> dangerous, but a homosexual finds such speech 'offensive,' his Super 
>>> Rights
>>> trump the broadcaster's freedom of speech and the broadcaster may be 
>>> fined
>>> or imprisoned."
>>>
>>> The concept of hate crimes seems particularly reprehensible. If one of 
>>> your
>>> (heterosexual) loved ones is the object of a despicable crime, the
>>> perpetrator would receive a lesser punishment than someone who committed 
>>> the
>>> same act against someone who practices homosexual sex!
>>>
>>> +-+-+-
>>>
>>>    He has made clear to you, O man, what is good; and what is desired 
>>> from
>>> you by the Lord; only doing what is
>>>  right, and loving mercy, and walking without pride before your God. 
>>> Micah
>>> 6:8
>>> ~~~
>>>
>>> Alan D Wheeler
>>> awheeler at neb.rr.com
>>> IM me at: outlaw-cowboy at live.com
>>> Skype: redwheel1
>>> Check me out on the Q, Fridays from 10 AM to 1 PM eastern time at
>>> www.theqonline.net
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>>
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