[Faith-talk] Fw: BreakPoint: So Much for Tolerance, 11/13/08

Thu Nov 13 20:08:17 UTC 2008

I'm reminded of a time when I was much younger and I was going from one 
service to another to sing.  We were late and the driver banged on the door 
of the second church and did a Russian accent thing and said, "This is the 
Gestapo.  Does this church preach the Gospel?"  The people at the church 
laughed and one of the guys said, "I hope you brought us a singer," and 
after I got in the door, the driver left.  But what would the average 
Christian do if people went door to door to see if we were reading our Bible 
and ripped it in half.  This is the same kind of tolerance that we dole out 
here.

Remember in the '70's when that song came out, I think by Gary Paxton:

"If they would arrest you for being a Christian,
Would there be enough evidence for them to convict you?"

Do we all say we have a reason for doing something and a motive for doing 
something, or are we just looking for a way to say we're Christian so we can 
get under some one's skin?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tribble" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
To: "Everett Gavel" <EverettG at successfuladaptations.com>; "Faith-talk,for 
the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Fw: BreakPoint: So Much for Tolerance, 11/13/08

> that's weird -- I doubt the 2 young men in the report were really mormon
> missionaries as while the mormons campaign vigorously against same sex
> marriage, they wouldn't have committed a crime (stealing rings and
> ransacking a house). Must have been a front used by 2 guys looking for
> trouble.
> My church is adamantly against same sex unions, but I personally wonder
> about the justification for banning them as the people involved would be
> living a gay lifestyle to begin with and changing the legal status 
> wouldn't
> affect anyone else -- I understand wanting the name to be different: 
> "civil
> union" as opposed to marriage.  My friends at church say they oppose any
> kind of union as that would put them in a contract that would be harder to
> get out of should they change their mindset, even if the contract was not
> deemed a "marriage".
> Is this a can of worms that we don't want to open on this list?
> I have to teach a lesson on marriage this coming sunday so am thinking 
> about
> it in case one of the kids brings it up...
> Take care.
> --le
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Everett Gavel" <everettg at successfuladaptations.com>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:00 AM
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Fw: BreakPoint: So Much for Tolerance, 11/13/08
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "BreakPoint" <prison_fellowship at informz.net>
> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:42 AM
> Subject: BreakPoint: So Much for Tolerance, 11/13/08
>
> ***************************
> BREAKPOINT DAILY TRANSCRIPT
> ***************************
>
> So Much for Tolerance
> The Aftermath of Prop 8
>
> November 13, 2008
>
> The ad ran all over California on Election Day -- and
> surely sets a record for anti-religious bigotry. Two
> clean-cut young men knock at the door of a lesbian
> couple. The men identify themselves as Mormon
> missionaries. "We're here to take away your rights,"
> they announce.
>
> They snatch the women's wedding rings off their fingers
> and ransack their home. When they find the couple's
> marriage license, they rip it in half. "Say no to a
> church taking over your government," the voiceover
> says. "Vote 'no' on Proposition 8."
>
> Despite such vicious attacks, California's Proposition
> 8, which defined marriage as between one man and one
> woman, passed. But the assaults on churches have just
> begun.
>
> Two days after the election, 2,000 homosexual
> protesters surrounded a Mormon temple in Los Angeles
> chanting "Mormon scum." Protesters picketed Rick
> Warren's Saddleback Church, holding signs reading
> "Purpose-Driven Hate." Calvary Chapel in Chino Hills
> was spray painted. Church members' cars have been
> vandalized, and at least two Christians were assaulted.
> Protesters even hurled racial epithets at
> African-Americans because African-Americans voted
> overwhelmingly in favor of traditional marriage.
>
> This is an outrage. What hypocrisy from those who spend
> all of their time preaching tolerance to the rest of
> us!  How dare they threaten and attack political
> opponents? We live a democratic country, not a banana
> republic ruled by thugs.
>
> Clearly, Christians need to redouble their efforts to
> help people understand what marriage is all about. In
> Los Angeles, when protesters gathered at the Cathedral
> of Our Lady of the Angels, they chanted, "What Would
> Jesus say?"
>
> That's a good question, and the Church should not
> hesitate to answer it. What would Jesus say about
> same-sex "marriage?"
>
> To get to the answer, let's first understand the
> meaning and purpose of marriage. In his book THE CLASH
> OF ORTHODOXIES, Princeton philosopher Robert George
> writes that matrimonial law reflects a moral
> judgment -- that marriage is inherently heterosexual,
> monogamous, and permanent -- a union of one man and one
> woman.
>
> This view reflects the biblical and natural law
> understanding that marriage is a two-in-one-flesh
> communion of persons. This communion is consummated by
> sexual acts that are reproductive in nature. They unite
> the spouses as a single procreative unit -- an organic
> unity achieved even by infertile couples. Only a mated
> pair can be a complete organism capable of human
> procreation.
>
> Since homosexual acts have no relationship to
> procreation and cannot unite persons organically, these
> acts cannot be marital -- which means relationships
> integrated around them cannot be marriages.
>
> We've got a winsome case, but we've got to get better
> equipped to explain it to our neighbors. You could
> start by reading THE CLASH OF ORTHODOXIES and other
> material available on our website. And then, start
> discussing these issues in your small groups, Sunday
> school classes, and youth groups.
>
> By protecting traditional marriage, we aren't taking
> away anybody's rights. We are simply upholding the
> framework of society's most basic institution, the loss
> of which would irreparably damage our families and our
> society.
>
>
> Get links to further information on today's topic
> (http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=10520)
>
>
>
> *********************
> ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
> *********************
>
> CENTURIONS
> --------------------------
> Turn the world right side up. Learn more about the 2009
> Centurions Program
> (http://www.breakpoint.org/generic.asp?ID=2748) and how
> you can apply to study Christian worldview with Chuck
> Colson!
>
>
> WILBERFORCE WEEKEND
> --------------------------
> Register now
> (http://www.breakpoint.org/generic.asp?ID=81) for the
> 2009 Wilberforce Weekend Conference, January 16-18 in
> Lansdowne, Va.
>
>
> RECOMMENDED RESOURCE
> --------------------------
> Charles Colson on Politics and the Christian Faith
> (https://www.pfm.org/storeitem.asp?ID=7712) (DVD)
>
>
> ONLINE FEATURE
> ---------------------------
> All Things Examined: "Teaching the Controversy:
> Students Deserve No Less"
> (http://www.breakpoint.org/listingarticle.asp?ID=10479)
> by Regis Nicoll
>
>
> THE POINT
> ---------------------------
> . Seeking Forgiveness, Online
> (http://thepoint.breakpoint.org/2008/11/the-apology-pro.html)
> . Obama Reality Check
> (http://thepoint.breakpoint.org/2008/11/please-no-obama.html)
> . The Modern Holocaust?
> (http://thepoint.breakpoint.org/2008/11/striped-pajamas.html)
> . Don't Forego the Foreclosed
> (http://thepoint.breakpoint.org/2008/11/the-point-rad-7.html)
> . Words We Shouldn't of Used
> (http://thepoint.breakpoint.org/2008/11/fun-with-words.html)
>
> Listen to Today's Point Radio Broadcast
> (http://thepoint.breakpoint.org)
>
>
>
> For printer-friendly version, simply visit
> www.breakpoint.org
> (http://www.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT01MDc0NzAmcD0xJnU9MTAxNjQ1NTQ0JmxpPTE4ODMzODk/index.html)
> and click on Today's Commentary. The printer-friendly
> link is on the left-hand column.
>
> Copyright (c) 2008 Prison Fellowship
>
> THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN
> FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
>
>
>
> "BreakPoint" is a daily commentary on news and trends
> from a Christian perspective. Heard on more than 1000
> radio outlets nationwide, "BreakPoint" transcripts are
> also available on the Internet.
>
> BreakPoint is the worldview ministry of PFM (formerly
> Prison Fellowship Ministries): 44180 Riverside Parkway,
> Lansdowne, VA 20176.
>
> Subscribe to BreakPoint
> (http://msg1svc.net/static/pfm/leadcapture/subscribe.cfm?site=BP)
> .
>
> You are receiving this message as a subscriber to
> BreakPoint's daily newsletter.
>
>
> Powered by Informz for iMIS
> http://www.informzforimis.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jcvogt%40pressenter.com
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1785 - Release Date: 11/13/2008 
9:12 AM