[Faith-talk] Born again versus born christians or anyfaithmembers

Thu Jun 17 20:02:13 UTC 2010

This is true--that God allows suffering. I think whatever the reason, 
Christians also believe there is life after death, and so that suffering can 
give you experience that you might find valuable, if not here, then 
eternally.
I have always been annoyed at the idea that God causes all the problems in 
the world, and the decision not to believe in God suddenly after suffering a 
personal tragedy -- as if all the other tragedies in the world didn't matter 
before.  I know many might not believe the way I do, but earth life is for 
experience and testing, and what comes after will I believe make the 
suffering worth it -- hopefully.  Jesus also suffered.  I think the bible 
said that even Jesus grew from grace to grace and learned from the things 
which he suffered. (See Hebrews I think.)
Enough of all that. I just had to comment. Have a day of good experiences 
and no tragedies!
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Aikens" <gpaikens at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Born again versus born christians or 
anyfaithmembers

Hi Peter,
You packed a lot into this post and I'm only going to bite off a
little bit. The problem of pain and suffering is a major cause for
doubt for many, many people. What many people don't realize is that
the Bible writers struggle with this issue in a very open and honest
way. The hebrews understood that pain and suffering is confusing in a
world created by God and under his control. The answer they came to,
if you can call it that, is that somehow God has chosen to allow an
element of chaos to exist within creation. He limits it and allows it
to exist, but it is not outside his control. From our finite human
perspective, we can't understand why this makes sense. But we can
trust in the rest that we know about God, that he has revealed himself
as good and loving, strong and all powerful. I hope I'm not just
throwing Christian platitudes at you.

I strongly suggest that you read through the book of Job if you
haven't read it lately. Job voices human frustration with pain and God
responds to him. I don't know which version of the Bible you use but I
recommend that you make sure you get a version written in modern
english. The King James is beautiful but difficult to understand since
no one talks that way anymore. I love the New Living Translation and
the Contemporary English Version for devotional reading, as well as
the NIV and ESV.

Hope this was helpful,
Greg

On 6/17/10, jaybee <jayjohnson66 at att.net> wrote:
> Remember folk, God promised to provide our needs, not our desires.  It 
> would
> be good if our desires always coincide with our needs; unfortunately, they
> don't.  God is always sincere.  We can always trust Him.  He has never
> renigued on a promise, and He never will.  My faith permits me to believe
> fully in God without doubting whatever the situation may be in spite of 
> the
> fact that oftentimes I do not understand why things happen the way they 
> do.
> When we doubt the sincerity of God it is because of a flaw in our faith, 
> not
> because of a flaw in God.  Jaybee
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Born again versus born christians or any
> faithmembers
>
>
>> You know, I hope I don't offend anyone by a humorous line, but I once saw
>> a
>> plaque with a picture of a cute puppy face on it, and the caption said
>> "blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be
>> disappointed..."
>> That may be  a rude play on the beatitudes, but there is a truth in it
>> that
>> in a weird way can apply to some of life's situations.  What I mean is, 
>> if
>> you give someone something not expecting anything in return -- chances 
>> are
>> you may not get anything in return, but there is that chance that your
>> good
>> deed will bear fruit.  In either case, you are not disappointed! *smile*
>> I know you are talking about the after life and not about daily life, but
>> if
>> we live this life as if we can't expect anything afterwards unless we do
>> good here, hmm--someone help me -- then if there is nothing, are we
>> disappointed/? Ok so maybe it doesn't apply exactly. It, after all, is 
>> not
>> a
>> beatitude, but a play on them.
>>
>> That leads me to say, maybe it would be a good idea to reread the
>> beatitudes -- aren't they in Matthew 5? They are quite uplifting as they
>> are
>> all about blessings.
>> Have a great day, whether or not you expect to! *smile*
>> --le
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
>> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:35 AM
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Born again versus born christians or any faith
>> members
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>> Webmaster
>> http://www.darkstruggle.com
>> webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>> alternative e-mail
>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>
>> To list::
>>
>>
>>    I'm wondering what the proportions versus born again to born
>> christians are in here on this list? This could consist of any faith
>> and in general to us the blind if possible only. I just find it hard
>> now that I'm blind to believe in all knowing and all loving God that
>> cares about me? I question the sincerity, yet I go to church like
>> others. I wander around in my head whether or not it's all a crock
>> like Marx stated "Religion is opium for the masses" or there is a all
>> knowing-loving God out there for us. Another fundamental in general
>> terms is that there are religions before, during and after the
>> creation of christianity and who is to say which is right or what is
>> wrong? I mean it's all geopolitical and the west's default now is
>> christianity, middle east's Islam, far east being China is buddahist
>> or Hindi or whatever indigenous religions in the world in Africa to
>> Latin America. I also question my faith and pray and return
>> continiously to the same cycle of sin over and over. The apathy of
>> christians is a self-restrain hypocritical or overly judgemental view
>> of a narrow interest privledged lifestyle of upbringing into one
>> unquestionable homogenous faith being christianity. Thankss for any
>> venting on your part on your voyage to faith or faithlessness as well.
>> Another thing is that what if you end up at the end of your life and
>> die to find out either nothing is there or your God wasn't who you
>> thought in your Bible it was going to be like?
>>
>> sincerely,
>> Pete
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
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>> Faith-talk:
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Born again versus born christians or any
> faithmembers
>
>
>> You know, I hope I don't offend anyone by a humorous line, but I once saw
>> a
>> plaque with a picture of a cute puppy face on it, and the caption said
>> "blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be
>> disappointed..."
>> That may be  a rude play on the beatitudes, but there is a truth in it
>> that
>> in a weird way can apply to some of life's situations.  What I mean is, 
>> if
>> you give someone something not expecting anything in return -- chances 
>> are
>> you may not get anything in return, but there is that chance that your
>> good
>> deed will bear fruit.  In either case, you are not disappointed! *smile*
>> I know you are talking about the after life and not about daily life, but
>> if
>> we live this life as if we can't expect anything afterwards unless we do
>> good here, hmm--someone help me -- then if there is nothing, are we
>> disappointed/? Ok so maybe it doesn't apply exactly. It, after all, is 
>> not
>>
>> a
>> beatitude, but a play on them.
>>
>> That leads me to say, maybe it would be a good idea to reread the
>> beatitudes -- aren't they in Matthew 5? They are quite uplifting as they
>> are
>> all about blessings.
>> Have a great day, whether or not you expect to! *smile*
>> --le
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
>> To: <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:35 AM
>> Subject: [Faith-talk] Born again versus born christians or any faith
>> members
>>
>>
>> --
>> Peter
>> Webmaster
>> http://www.darkstruggle.com
>> webmaster at darkstruggle.com
>> alternative e-mail
>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>
>> To list::
>>
>>
>>    I'm wondering what the proportions versus born again to born
>> christians are in here on this list? This could consist of any faith
>> and in general to us the blind if possible only. I just find it hard
>> now that I'm blind to believe in all knowing and all loving God that
>> cares about me? I question the sincerity, yet I go to church like
>> others. I wander around in my head whether or not it's all a crock
>> like Marx stated "Religion is opium for the masses" or there is a all
>> knowing-loving God out there for us. Another fundamental in general
>> terms is that there are religions before, during and after the
>> creation of christianity and who is to say which is right or what is
>> wrong? I mean it's all geopolitical and the west's default now is
>> christianity, middle east's Islam, far east being China is buddahist
>> or Hindi or whatever indigenous religions in the world in Africa to
>> Latin America. I also question my faith and pray and return
>> continiously to the same cycle of sin over and over. The apathy of
>> christians is a self-restrain hypocritical or overly judgemental view
>> of a narrow interest privledged lifestyle of upbringing into one
>> unquestionable homogenous faith being christianity. Thankss for any
>> venting on your part on your voyage to faith or faithlessness as well.
>> Another thing is that what if you end up at the end of your life and
>> die to find out either nothing is there or your God wasn't who you
>> thought in your Bible it was going to be like?
>>
>> sincerely,
>> Pete
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jayjohnson66%40att.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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> Faith-talk:
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>

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