[Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way?-understanding others

Fri Apr 29 18:15:57 UTC 2011

i think we should just agree to disagree.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Wheeler" <awheeler65 at windstream.net>
To: "'Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion'" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right 
way?-understanding others

Kurt,
I am going to choose to disagree with you. The Bible says absolutely nothing
about the Gospel being preached to people after they die. I could show you
scripture after scripture regarding what happens after death, but I suspect
you will believe what you want, no matter what scripture says. I don't mean
that to be a critical statement, just an opinion.

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:09 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way?
-understanding others

Alan,
  Fair enough,every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess.  But there
have been many, millions, who simply never heard the gospel of Christ in
this life.  They maybe knew of God as Allah or Vishnu or any number of
Politheist pantheons...but no, many many many people went through life never
even hearing the name of Jesus Christ.  But if every knee shal bow and every
tongue shal confess, that means everyone will have the chance to hear his
gospel, at some point.  And since a huge number never heard it in this life
(maybe they were Theists, but you can't be Christian if you never even heard
of Christ), to me that pretty much implies they'll have to hear about it
later.  For those of us who know now- we're responsible for keeping the laws
of God we have.  But, as I said before, millions lived and died never even
knowing Christianity existed.

On 4/28/11, Alan Wheeler <awheeler65 at windstream.net> wrote:
> Yes, you are right. In fact, we find in Phillipians:
>
> Philippians 2
>
> 5 ¶You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
> 6 ¶Though he was God, ¶he did not think of equality with God ¶as
> something to cling to.
> 7 ¶Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; ¶he took the humble
> position of a slave ¶and was born as a human being. ¶When he appeared
> in human form,
> 8 ¶he humbled himself in obedience to God ¶and died a criminal's death
> on a cross.
> 9 ¶Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor ¶and gave
> him the name above all other names, 10 ¶that at the name of Jesus
> every knee should bow, ¶in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
> 11 ¶and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, ¶to the glory
> of God the Father.
>
>
> Not "some knee shall bow" or "some tongues confess", but *EVERY* knee
> and
> *EVERY* tongue.
>
> This is specifically why missionaries are sent all over the world!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Amy Ragain
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 11:34 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way?
> -understanding others
>
> no one can truly say they haven't herd! I don't know where its found,
> maybe someone can help me with that, but doesn't the bible say that
> the heavens declare the work of the Lord!
>
> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:18 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>
>> Joshua,
>>  But Jesus wasn't sent to the whole world.  Most people throughout
>> history have not understood his message, billions of people who lived
>> throughout the world never even heard the name Jesus.  Does God not
>> care about them?
>>  God bless,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 4/28/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>>> see in today's churches.
>>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every
>>> knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is
Lord.
>>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>>> There's no way around it.
>>> The other religions aren't correct.
>>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>>> Father, but by him.
>>> That's what Jesus said.
>>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>>> until Antioch.
>>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>>> "then Peter said unto them,
>>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>>> the Holy Ghost."
>>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as
>>> the Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.) If you're going to call
>>> yourself a Christian, you need to start with the way the Apostles
>>> did.
>>> Just my thoughts.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>>
>>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other
>>>> religions have different perspectives.
>>>> Take this theologians line:
>>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the
>>>> Christians, as Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>>
>>>> What does this tell you?
>>>>
>>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>>> Christus (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to
>>>> speak, and that their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is
>>>> passover, in which God leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and
>>>> the fact that we celebrate our revelation from God, Easter, on the
>>>> very week, it shows you that the right way isn't set in stone.
>>>>
>>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations,
>>>> one from Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God
>>>> (and for Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is
>>>> God) In effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in
>>>> different eras and in different forms.
>>>>
>>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>>
>>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the
>>>> first revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter
>>>> asks, "Master, why do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>>
>>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come." then says ".but
>>>> surely Elisha has already come, and man has done on to him what
>>>> they will."
>>>>
>>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you
>>>> know that Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His
>>>> book is written years before the new testament even begins.
>>>>
>>>> But. where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>>>
>>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a
>>>> theological point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference
>>>> to the Muslim prophet Mohammed.
>>>>
>>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>>
>>>> My answer is this,
>>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions
>>>> agree on this do they not?
>>>>
>>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of
>>>> the later religious figures.
>>>>
>>>> Simple answer.
>>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>>
>>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>>
>>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in
>>>> Egypt at the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to
>>>> the writings of the time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in
>>>> the text. Without diving into too much detail, Moses saved the
>>>> people of Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but set
>>>> standards for them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will
>>>> of God.
>>>>
>>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>>
>>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans,
>>>> and the religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and
>>>> power hungry.
>>>>
>>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after,
>>>> and at the birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus
>>>> split into 2 groups.
>>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>>> original Torah.
>>>>
>>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>>
>>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They
>>>> were merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business.
>>>> When he turned 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril,
>>>> known in English as Gabriel.
>>>>
>>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and values.
>>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>>
>>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>>
>>>> The Buddha.
>>>>
>>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced
>>>> all wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path
>>>> threw meditation.
>>>>
>>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did
>>>> Moses, as did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different
>>>> language.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is
>>>> a way of life.
>>>>
>>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever
>>>> greatness you might reach, then you are, though perhaps unknown to
>>>> you, obeying the same code that almost all religious figures have
>>>> taught threw out the years.
>>>>
>>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>>>
>>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>>
>>>> That means,
>>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had, but as long as it is
>>>> something in which you are strong in faith, that is your true
>>>> religion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language
>>>> of a message that is already there--but I believe you should
>>>> convert, as long as you don't defame the name of God, or any of his
>>>> messengers, no matter what their name may be.
>>>>
>>>> Jorge
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>>>
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