[Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way? -understanding others

Fri Apr 29 23:35:40 UTC 2011

Amen.

On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:09 AM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:

> Alan,
>  Fair enough,every knee will bow and every tongue shall confess.  But
> there have been many, millions, who simply never heard the gospel of
> Christ in this life.  They maybe knew of God as Allah or Vishnu or any
> number of Politheist pantheons...but no, many many many people went
> through life never even hearing the name of Jesus Christ.  But if
> every knee shal bow and every tongue shal confess, that means everyone
> will have the chance to hear his gospel, at some point.  And since a
> huge number never heard it in this life (maybe they were Theists, but
> you can't be Christian if you never even heard of Christ), to me that
> pretty much implies they'll have to hear about it later.  For those of
> us who know now- we're responsible for keeping the laws of God we
> have.  But, as I said before, millions lived and died never even
> knowing Christianity existed.
> 
> On 4/28/11, Alan Wheeler <awheeler65 at windstream.net> wrote:
>> Yes, you are right. In fact, we find in Phillipians:
>> 
>> Philippians 2
>> 
>> 5 ¶You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
>> 6 ¶Though he was God, ¶he did not think of equality with God ¶as something
>> to cling to.
>> 7 ¶Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; ¶he took the humble position
>> of a slave ¶and was born as a human being. ¶When he appeared in human form,
>> 8 ¶he humbled himself in obedience to God ¶and died a criminal’s death on a
>> cross.
>> 9 ¶Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor ¶and gave him
>> the name above all other names,
>> 10 ¶that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, ¶in heaven and on earth
>> and under the earth,
>> 11 ¶and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, ¶to the glory of God
>> the Father.
>> 
>> 
>> Not "some knee shall bow" or "some tongues confess", but *EVERY* knee and
>> *EVERY* tongue.
>> 
>> This is specifically why missionaries are sent all over the world!
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf Of Amy Ragain
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 11:34 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way?
>> -understanding others
>> 
>> no one can truly say they haven't herd! I don't know where its found, maybe
>> someone can help me with that, but doesn't the bible say that the heavens
>> declare the work of the Lord!
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:18 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>> 
>>> Joshua,
>>> But Jesus wasn't sent to the whole world.  Most people throughout
>>> history have not understood his message, billions of people who lived
>>> throughout the world never even heard the name Jesus.  Does God not
>>> care about them?
>>> God bless,
>>> Kirt
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>>>> see in today's churches.
>>>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every knee
>>>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
>>>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>>>> There's no way around it.
>>>> The other religions aren't correct.
>>>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>>>> Father, but by him.
>>>> That's what Jesus said.
>>>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>>>> until Antioch.
>>>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>>>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>>>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>>>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>>>> "then Peter said unto them,
>>>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>>>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>>>> the Holy Ghost."
>>>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>>>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>>>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as
>>>> the Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.) If you're going to call
>>>> yourself a Christian, you need to start with the way the Apostles
>>>> did.
>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> 
>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other
>>>>> religions have different perspectives.
>>>>> Take this theologians line:
>>>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the
>>>>> Christians, as Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>>> 
>>>>> What does this tell you?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>>>> Christus (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to
>>>>> speak, and that their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is
>>>>> passover, in which God leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and
>>>>> the fact that we celebrate our revelation from God, Easter, on the
>>>>> very week, it shows you that the right way isn't set in stone.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, one
>>>>> from Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and
>>>>> for Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God) In
>>>>> effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different eras
>>>>> and in different forms.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the first
>>>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks,
>>>>> "Master, why do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come…" then says "…but
>>>>> surely Elisha has already come, and man has done on to him what they
>>>>> will."
>>>>> 
>>>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you
>>>>> know that Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His
>>>>> book is written years before the new testament even begins.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But… where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a
>>>>> theological point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference
>>>>> to the Muslim prophet Mohammed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My answer is this,
>>>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions
>>>>> agree on this do they not?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of the
>>>>> later religious figures.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Simple answer.
>>>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>>> 
>>>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in
>>>>> Egypt at the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to
>>>>> the writings of the time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in
>>>>> the text. Without diving into too much detail, Moses saved the
>>>>> people of Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but set
>>>>> standards for them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will
>>>>> of God.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans,
>>>>> and the religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and
>>>>> power hungry.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after,
>>>>> and at the birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus
>>>>> split into 2 groups.
>>>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>>>> original Torah.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They
>>>>> were merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business.
>>>>> When he turned 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril,
>>>>> known in English as Gabriel.
>>>>> 
>>>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and values.
>>>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Buddha.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced
>>>>> all wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path
>>>>> threw meditation.
>>>>> 
>>>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did
>>>>> Moses, as did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different
>>>>> language.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is a
>>>>> way of life.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever
>>>>> greatness you might reach, then you are, though perhaps unknown to
>>>>> you, obeying the same code that almost all religious figures have
>>>>> taught threw out the years.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That means,
>>>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had, but as long as it is
>>>>> something in which you are strong in faith, that is your true
>>>>> religion.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language
>>>>> of a message that is already there--but I believe you should
>>>>> convert, as long as you don't defame the name of God, or any of his
>>>>> messengers, no matter what their name may be.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jorge
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8
>>>>> 462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.craz
>>>> ydude%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/belovedcon
>>> secrated2god%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/awheeler65%40win
>> dstream.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com