[Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way? -understanding others

Fri Apr 29 23:36:52 UTC 2011

True--of course there is the wrath of God,
but is not God all loving and all merciful?
Even in the bible it states that he is a merciful God,
slow to wrath.

On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:21 AM, Jeanette wrote:

> everyone seems to want to talk about God's love but not about God's wrath against sin, it seems that it is all about us and not about a loving god who gives us a choice to choose His ways or not to, everything in life has consequences so what you are saying is there are no consequences to choosing a different way here on earth and if you don't like the after life you get you can change your mind, don't see that in the bible.
> as to whether folks are a child of God i kind of think it has to do with what your definition of child of God is, if you mean since God created us all then we are all his children, i suppose that is true.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way? -understanding others
> 
> 
> Joshua:
> are you suggesting that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ are therefore not children of God?
> Is this not hypocritical?
> Does it not go against the image of the loving God Christians like to portray?
> For love is for all,
> love for some is not true love.
> Is that right?
> 
> Jorge
> 
> 
> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> 
>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>> see in today's churches.
>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every knee
>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>> There's no way around it.
>> The other religions aren't correct.
>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>> Father, but by him.
>> That's what Jesus said.
>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>> until Antioch.
>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>> "then Peter said unto them,
>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>> the Holy Ghost."
>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as the
>> Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.)
>> If you're going to call yourself a Christian, you need to start with
>> the way the Apostles did.
>> Just my thoughts.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> 
>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>> 
>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other religions
>>> have different perspectives.
>>> Take this theologians line:
>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the Christians, as
>>> Moses was sent to the jews."
>>> 
>>> What does this tell you?
>>> 
>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as Christus
>>> (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to speak, and that
>>> their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is passover, in which God
>>> leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and the fact that we celebrate our
>>> revelation from God, Easter, on the very week, it shows you that the right
>>> way isn't set in stone.
>>> 
>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, one from
>>> Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and for
>>> Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God)
>>> In effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different eras and
>>> in different forms.
>>> 
>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>> 
>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the first
>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks, "Master, why
>>> do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>> 
>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come…" then says "…but surely Elisha
>>> has already come, and man has done on to him what they will."
>>> 
>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you know that
>>> Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His book is written
>>> years before the new testament even begins.
>>> 
>>> But… where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>> 
>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a theological
>>> point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference to the Muslim
>>> prophet Mohammed.
>>> 
>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>> 
>>> My answer is this,
>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions agree on
>>> this do they not?
>>> 
>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of the later
>>> religious figures.
>>> 
>>> Simple answer.
>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>> 
>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>> 
>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in Egypt at
>>> the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to the writings of the
>>> time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in the text. Without diving into
>>> too much detail,
>>> Moses saved the people of Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but
>>> set standards for them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will of
>>> God.
>>> 
>>> Then came Jesus.
>>> 
>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans, and the
>>> religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and power hungry.
>>> 
>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after, and at the
>>> birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus split into 2 groups.
>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the original
>>> Torah.
>>> 
>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>> 
>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They were
>>> merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business. When he turned
>>> 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril, known in English as
>>> Gabriel.
>>> 
>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and values.
>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>> 
>>> And now consider my last example.
>>> 
>>> The Buddha.
>>> 
>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced all
>>> wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path threw
>>> meditation.
>>> 
>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did Moses, as
>>> did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different language.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is a way of
>>> life.
>>> 
>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever greatness you
>>> might reach,
>>> then you are, though perhaps unknown to you, obeying the same code that
>>> almost all religious figures have taught threw out the years.
>>> 
>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>> 
>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>> 
>>> That means,
>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had,
>>> but as long as it is something in which you are strong in faith,
>>> that is your true religion.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language of a
>>> message that is already there--but I believe you should convert, as long as
>>> you don't defame the name of God, or any of his messengers, no matter what
>>> their name may be.
>>> 
>>> Jorge
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>> 
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