[Faith-talk] After we die WAS RE: this week's reflection - what is the right way?-understanding others
Jorge Paez
computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com
Fri Apr 29 23:44:50 UTC 2011
Yes,
Like I said,
only God knows what happens after death,
but God does reveal himself to those he chooses in life within the perimeters of that person's understanding heart and mind.
On Apr 29, 2011, at 6:51 AM, Alan Wheeler wrote:
> Jeanette and everyone,
> Let me share a couple of sections from the set of fundamental beliefs of the
> Seventh-day Adventist church, which I am going to be joinging soon. This
> clearly, using only the bible, explains what happens after we die, and how
> humanity is judged. I know it's a lot of scripture to look at, but if you
> all look, you'll see the truth of it.
>
>
> 26. Death and Resurrection:
> The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant
> eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state
> for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected
> righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet
> their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous,
> will take place a thousand years later. (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl.
> 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess.
> 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)
>
> 27. Millennium and the End of Sin:
> The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in
> heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the
> wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without
> living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close
> Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth.
> The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels
> will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the
> earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. (Rev. 20;
> 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Jer. 4:23-26; Rev. 21:1-5; Mal. 4:1; Eze. 28:18, 19.)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Jeanette
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:22 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
> way?-understanding others
>
> everyone seems to want to talk about God's love but not about God's wrath
> against sin, it seems that it is all about us and not about a loving god who
> gives us a choice to choose His ways or not to, everything in life has
> consequences so what you are saying is there are no consequences to choosing
> a different way here on earth and if you don't like the after life you get
> you can change your mind, don't see that in the bible.
> as to whether folks are a child of God i kind of think it has to do with
> what your definition of child of God is, if you mean since God created us
> all then we are all his children, i suppose that is true.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way?
> -understanding others
>
>
> Joshua:
> are you suggesting that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ are
> therefore not children of God?
> Is this not hypocritical?
> Does it not go against the image of the loving God Christians like to
> portray?
> For love is for all,
> love for some is not true love.
> Is that right?
>
> Jorge
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>> see in today's churches.
>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every knee
>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>> There's no way around it.
>> The other religions aren't correct.
>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>> Father, but by him.
>> That's what Jesus said.
>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>> until Antioch.
>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>> "then Peter said unto them,
>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>> the Holy Ghost."
>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as the
>> Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.) If you're going to call
>> yourself a Christian, you need to start with the way the Apostles did.
>> Just my thoughts.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>
>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other
>>> religions have different perspectives.
>>> Take this theologians line:
>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the
>>> Christians, as Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>
>>> What does this tell you?
>>>
>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>> Christus (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to
>>> speak, and that their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is
>>> passover, in which God leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and the
>>> fact that we celebrate our revelation from God, Easter, on the very
>>> week, it shows you that the right way isn't set in stone.
>>>
>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, one
>>> from Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and
>>> for Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God) In
>>> effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different eras
>>> and in different forms.
>>>
>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>
>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the first
>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks,
>>> "Master, why do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>
>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come." then says ".but surely
>>> Elisha has already come, and man has done on to him what they will."
>>>
>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you
>>> know that Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His
>>> book is written years before the new testament even begins.
>>>
>>> But. where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>>
>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a
>>> theological point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference
>>> to the Muslim prophet Mohammed.
>>>
>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>
>>> My answer is this,
>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions
>>> agree on this do they not?
>>>
>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of the
>>> later religious figures.
>>>
>>> Simple answer.
>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>
>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>
>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in
>>> Egypt at the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to the
>>> writings of the time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in the
>>> text. Without diving into too much detail, Moses saved the people of
>>> Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but set standards for
>>> them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will of God.
>>>
>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>
>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans,
>>> and the religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and
>>> power hungry.
>>>
>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after, and
>>> at the birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus split
>>> into 2 groups.
>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>> original Torah.
>>>
>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>
>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They
>>> were merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business.
>>> When he turned 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril,
>>> known in English as Gabriel.
>>>
>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and values.
>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>
>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>
>>> The Buddha.
>>>
>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced
>>> all wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path threw
>>> meditation.
>>>
>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did
>>> Moses, as did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different
>>> language.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is a
>>> way of life.
>>>
>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever
>>> greatness you might reach, then you are, though perhaps unknown to
>>> you, obeying the same code that almost all religious figures have
>>> taught threw out the years.
>>>
>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>>
>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>
>>> That means,
>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had, but as long as it is
>>> something in which you are strong in faith, that is your true
>>> religion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language of
>>> a message that is already there--but I believe you should convert, as
>>> long as you don't defame the name of God, or any of his messengers,
>>> no matter what their name may be.
>>>
>>> Jorge
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>>
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