[Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right way? -understanding others

Sat Apr 30 00:31:26 UTC 2011

Jorge, and all
Lee Stoneking is a Bible scholar, and a prolific author.
He's well-versed in church history.
Go to www.leestoneking.com, and click on church history.
There is some amazing information on there, (some of which I quoted,)
(putting it into my own words.)
Also, go to Youtube, and type in "Lee Stoneking," "Trinity vs. Jesus."
He's a minister, within the United Pentecostal Church International.
For a list of our beliefs, go to www.upci.org.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
> Very interesting Joshua.
> Certainly I'll look into it.
>
> I wasn't aware that there was a "church" and then a split, I was taught that
> there was the Catholic church and then everything split from there,
> but,
> I will research before I say more.
> Jorge
>
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>> Jesus is the creator.
>> Did I not clarify that he was the Father in creation?
>> I showed you that God was a spirit, (John 4:24.)
>> That spirit was made manifest in flesh, (1 Timothy, 3:16.)
>> Jesus was God that created, who wrapped himself in flesh, (Son,) to
>> redeem, and now lives in us as the Holy Ghost in regeneration.
>> The holy Ghost is Christ in us, the hope of glory.
>> Romans, 8:9 says, that if we don't have the spirit of Christ, (the
>> Holy Ghost,) we're none of his.
>> The church was founded in 29 A.D.
>> The Roman Catholic Church was founded in 325, A.D.
>> They don't teach what the early church taught, because Constantine
>> added idol worship, (IE worship of the Roman Gods,) to the christian
>> faith.
>> They even had icons, (pictures,) to worship.
>> They condemned the early church, and persecuted them.
>> Many were stoned, burned at the steak, or imprisoned, as heretics,
>> because they preached this very message.
>> God has always had a church, and he has restored the 1st century church.
>> Those of us that hold to the Apostolic message, (those things which
>> were preached by Jesus, and the apostles,) are the restoration of the
>> 1st century church.
>> They baptized in Jesus's name, taught that there was only one God,
>> (not a trinity,) and they believed in receiving the Holy Ghost
>> evidenced by speaking in other tongues, as the Spirit gives utterance.
>> What's the right way?
>> Go back to the 1st century Christian church.
>> Find an apostolic Pentecostal Church, (because they're teaching what
>> was preached by the Apostles.
>> Repent, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of
>> sin, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
>> Acts, 2:38 is still essential for salvation.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/29/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Notice,
>>> for the glory of God.
>>>
>>> In that lays your flaw,
>>> anything that is done for the glory of God shall be rewarded,
>>> not just in the name of Jesus,
>>> but in the name of the creator.
>>>
>>> The Creator, the Almighty, is the supreme power.
>>>
>>> All religions accept this.
>>>
>>> Are they all right?
>>> Maybe not.
>>> Do I agree with everything that has ever been written?
>>> Certainly not,
>>> but as long as people honor the universal truths taught by Jesus, and
>>> God's
>>> other messengers they are safe.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 12:52 AM, Alan Wheeler wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, you are right. In fact, we find in Phillipians:
>>>>
>>>> Philippians 2
>>>>
>>>> 5 ¶You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
>>>> 6 ¶Though he was God, ¶he did not think of equality with God ¶as
>>>> something
>>>> to cling to.
>>>> 7 ¶Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; ¶he took the humble
>>>> position
>>>> of a slave ¶and was born as a human being. ¶When he appeared in human
>>>> form,
>>>> 8 ¶he humbled himself in obedience to God ¶and died a criminal’s death
>>>> on
>>>> a
>>>> cross.
>>>> 9 ¶Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor ¶and gave
>>>> him
>>>> the name above all other names,
>>>> 10 ¶that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, ¶in heaven and on
>>>> earth
>>>> and under the earth,
>>>> 11 ¶and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, ¶to the glory of
>>>> God
>>>> the Father.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not "some knee shall bow" or "some tongues confess", but *EVERY* knee
>>>> and
>>>> *EVERY* tongue.
>>>>
>>>> This is specifically why missionaries are sent all over the world!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>> [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Amy Ragain
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 11:34 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] this week's reflection - what is the right
>>>> way?
>>>> -understanding others
>>>>
>>>> no one can truly say they haven't herd! I don't know where its found,
>>>> maybe
>>>> someone can help me with that, but doesn't the bible say that the
>>>> heavens
>>>> declare the work of the Lord!
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 8:18 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>> But Jesus wasn't sent to the whole world.  Most people throughout
>>>>> history have not understood his message, billions of people who lived
>>>>> throughout the world never even heard the name Jesus.  Does God not
>>>>> care about them?
>>>>> God bless,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/28/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Jorge, this is the same "new thought," "seeker sensitive," stuff, we
>>>>>> see in today's churches.
>>>>>> The Jews didn't accept Jesus, but the Bible is clear, that every knee
>>>>>> shall bow, and every tongue shall confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
>>>>>> There's only one way to Heaven, and that's through Jesus Christ.
>>>>>> There's no way around it.
>>>>>> The other religions aren't correct.
>>>>>> Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no man cometh to the
>>>>>> Father, but by him.
>>>>>> That's what Jesus said.
>>>>>> He wasn't sent to Christians, because there weren't any Christians,
>>>>>> until Antioch.
>>>>>> The Bible says, that they were called Christians first, at Antioch.
>>>>>> Jesus was sent to the world, those who accept him are Christians.
>>>>>> What constitutes a true Christian?
>>>>>> Acts, 2:38 tells us where to begin our Christian walk.
>>>>>> "then Peter said unto them,
>>>>>> "Repent, and be baptized, everyone of you, in the name of Jesus
>>>>>> Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
>>>>>> the Holy Ghost."
>>>>>> There are 3 steps to salvation, according to Peter.
>>>>>> #1. Repentence, #2. Baptism in Jesus's name, and #3. Receiving the
>>>>>> Holy Ghost, with the initial sign of speaking in other tongues, as
>>>>>> the Spirit gives utterance, (see Acts, 2:4.) If you're going to call
>>>>>> yourself a Christian, you need to start with the way the Apostles
>>>>>> did.
>>>>>> Just my thoughts.
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> There is no clear answer on what the "right" way is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course for us Christians it is knowing Jesus, but the other
>>>>>>> religions have different perspectives.
>>>>>>> Take this theologians line:
>>>>>>> "Muhammad was sent to the Muslims, as Jesus was sent to the
>>>>>>> Christians, as Moses was sent to the jews."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What does this tell you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, if you realize the fact that the jews never accepted Jesus as
>>>>>>> Christus (greek for Christ), but just as one more teacher, so to
>>>>>>> speak, and that their main holiday to celebrate the glory of God is
>>>>>>> passover, in which God leads the Jewish nation out of Israel, and
>>>>>>> the fact that we celebrate our revelation from God, Easter, on the
>>>>>>> very week, it shows you that the right way isn't set in stone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because our 2 religions have 2 completely different revelations, one
>>>>>>> from Moses and one from Jesus, both who were messengers of God (and
>>>>>>> for Christians, Jesus is part of the holy trinity, which is God) In
>>>>>>> effect, both revelations were made by God on to us in different eras
>>>>>>> and in different forms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now add to that one more layer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the gospel, Jesus says something very interesting after the first
>>>>>>> revelation of his passion to the 12 disciples. When Peter asks,
>>>>>>> "Master, why do the scribes say that Elisha must come first?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jesus replied "I assure you Elisha will come…" then says "…but
>>>>>>> surely Elisha has already come, and man has done on to him what they
>>>>>>> will."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That part caught my attention. If you know your old testament, you
>>>>>>> know that Elisha, as known by the Christians, has already come. His
>>>>>>> book is written years before the new testament even begins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But… where and when and who is the Elisha that Jesus says will come?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the answer is, and I hope that you take this with a
>>>>>>> theological point and not with bias, but I think it was a reference
>>>>>>> to the Muslim prophet Mohammed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this not "unChristian?" you ask.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My answer is this,
>>>>>>> God is the ultimate creator, and the ultimate power, all religions
>>>>>>> agree on this do they not?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some may ask why Mohammed never appeared in the bible, or any of the
>>>>>>> later religious figures.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simple answer.
>>>>>>> For each his own messenger was sent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Signs in times of trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First came Moses, in the old testament. His people were inslaved in
>>>>>>> Egypt at the time. If you remember the old testament well, due to
>>>>>>> the writings of the time, the Hebrews are called "God's people" in
>>>>>>> the text. Without diving into too much detail, Moses saved the
>>>>>>> people of Israel, and led them not only out of Egypt, but set
>>>>>>> standards for them in a life in Israel, in accordance with the will
>>>>>>> of God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then came Jesus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jesus appeared in a time where Israel was controlled by the Romans,
>>>>>>> and the religious leaders at the time were many times corrupt and
>>>>>>> power hungry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Notice that his teachings brought on huge crowds, but soon after,
>>>>>>> and at the birth of Christianity, the jews that had followed Jesus
>>>>>>> split into 2 groups.
>>>>>>> Those who called themselves Christians, and those who stuck to the
>>>>>>> original Torah.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Notice now the appearance of Mohammed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He, too, like Jesus, was born to a family of humble station. They
>>>>>>> were merchants. Soon he became well known for his honest business.
>>>>>>> When he turned 40, he had his first vision, threw the angel Jabril,
>>>>>>> known in English as Gabriel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He too, preached in a time when there was a lack of morals and
>>>>>>> values.
>>>>>>> Unlike Jesus, who preached to the Jews, who had been given previous
>>>>>>> commandments, the people of Mecca at the time were polytheists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And now consider my last example.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Buddha.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This prince, born in one of the royal families of India, renounced
>>>>>>> all wealth, and lived in poverty before finding the middle path
>>>>>>> threw meditation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He too, stressed the same exact code of behavior as Jesus, as did
>>>>>>> Moses, as did Mohammed (peace be upon them all) but in different
>>>>>>> language.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the right way is not a single religion, or a sect, it is a
>>>>>>> way of life.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you do kindness, be generous, and humble, despite whatever
>>>>>>> greatness you might reach, then you are, though perhaps unknown to
>>>>>>> you, obeying the same code that almost all religious figures have
>>>>>>> taught threw out the years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And now if I say that the right way is one, why different religions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Simply a matter of understanding and language.
>>>>>>> My statement as far as that goes will be this:
>>>>>>> pick the faith not that your parents had, but that YOU have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That means,
>>>>>>> it doesn't matter what faith your parents had, but as long as it is
>>>>>>> something in which you are strong in faith, that is your true
>>>>>>> religion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for reading, and remember no one else is better then oneself.
>>>>>>> Converting others to your religion is simply changing the language
>>>>>>> of a message that is already there--but I believe you should
>>>>>>> convert, as long as you don't defame the name of God, or any of his
>>>>>>> messengers, no matter what their name may be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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