[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list

Sat Apr 30 06:03:57 UTC 2011

Joshua,
  What about the Salem witch trials?  Those were Protestants...killing
innocent people in the name of Christ.  I know you'll say people who
do that aren't real Christians- I agree with you!  But the Muslims who
are Terrorists aren't real Muslims either-the same standard applies.

On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua,
>   Exactly!  The Muslims that blow themselves up and kill innocent
> people aren't real Muslims, either.  That's my point!
>
> Blessings,
> Kirt
>
> On 4/29/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> The ones that threatened pain, or death, were not true Christians.
>> The Nazis, were not real Christians, either.
>> You know that.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua, Barbara and all,
>>>   Was it love that forced Muslims and Jews to convert to Christianity,
>>> on pain of death, in the middle ages?  Was it Christlike love that
>>> sent heratics and apostates to their executions, simply for
>>> disagreeing with the church?  Was it christlike love that sent
>>> millions of Jews to the gas chambers?  Was it Christlike love that
>>> supressed scientific knowledge for centuries, merely for contradicting
>>> church dogma?  Was it Christlike love that pitted Christian against
>>> Christian, Catholic against Protestant, Catholic and Protestant
>>> against Anabaptist, and all these against the rest of the world in
>>> bloody wanton war?  Wait...none of that ever happened, Christians
>>> never tried to impose our religion by force...because we're more
>>> loving!
>>>   Please understand I'm being so vehement because I have Muslim
>>> friends and I know, firsthand, it is not a religion of oppression any
>>> more than Christianity is.  The Quran has verses which say go to war
>>> against the infidels who attack you first...the Old Testament has
>>> similar verses of scripture.  Just as most Christians do not impose,
>>> on pain of death, their faith on anyone else...Most Muslims live by
>>> their scriptures and live as good neighbors and peacable citizens.  If
>>> Islam is a religion of oppression, Christianity oppresses just as
>>> much.  It is a small minority of both religions, particularly in
>>> moddern times, that seeks to impose their faith on others by force of
>>> arms.  Both Christianity and Islam have had their share of saints and
>>> sinners- each religion has given birth to many good people and a few
>>> evil ones...but please, for the love, don't pin labels on whole
>>> religions just because a few verses of scripture _could_ be twisted to
>>> support evil.  Because, if that were true, Christianity would be just
>>> as evil as Islam...and I can give you the Bible verses to back that up
>>> if you want.
>>>   God bless,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 4/29/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>> Therefore, that makes it a religion of oppression.
>>>> Barbara
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jorge Paez
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:25 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>
>>>> Yes.
>>>> but that verse is folloed by:
>>>> "but if they surrender, then do not strike."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:45 PM, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As I understand it, one glaring difference--among many--between Muslim
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian is that you have the choice to accept Christ.  You are not
>>>>> forced to follow the strict practices.  Another difference is that
>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>
>>>>> are told to kill the infidels.  In the old Testament, God did tell the
>>>>> Israelites to kill all the people in a place.  But when Jesus came, He
>>>>> told us to love. We do not need to stone adulterers as Deuteronomy or
>>>>> Leviticus says.  The law was given to us to see that we sin.  "All
>>>>> have
>>>>> sinned and fall short of the glory of God."  When Jesus came, He asked
>>>>> who
>>>>>
>>>>> would cast the first stone.  Christians are taught to love the sinner
>>>>> but
>>>>> hate the sin.  If a Christian turns to a different faith, we don't
>>>>> disclaim them as Muslims--and others--do.
>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:38 PM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>
>>>>> We are compelled by Jesus to share the gospel just as the Muslims have
>>>>> been instructed to spread the Quran.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not a matter of who's right,
>>>>> but who's message is right for whom.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> belonging to a church or not belonging has nothing to do with being a
>>>>>> Christian as i understand it.  it is the personal relationship we
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> with Christ that saves us.    being a good person or not being a good
>>>>>> person has nothing to do with being a Christian either as i
>>>>>> understand
>>>>>> it, i know a lot of folks who do not believe in any supreme being and
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>
>>>>>> some of the nicest folks i know, but they do not believe in Christ or
>>>>>> God
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or anything and if Christ is the only way to heaven then it would be
>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to assume they would go to heaven, like i said, if we don't have to
>>>>>> accept Christ as our Lord and Savior here on earth, why bother, why
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> do as we please and then worry about salvation later? there would be
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> need to share the gospel if we didn't ahve to accept christ  here.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:04 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>>>>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because of a
>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his life or
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I believe
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>>>>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that the
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>> is through Christ.
>>>>>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement is of
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is the
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> who can judge.
>>>>>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of
>>>>>>> person"
>>>>>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come along
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> blows
>>>>>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>>>>>> intended in
>>>>>>> my choice of terms...)
>>>>>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the first
>>>>>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength, and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>> to love neighbor as self.  The thought crossed my mind that that
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen,
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> current unbelievable tornados.  Some people blame God for everything
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> goes wrong.
>>>>>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can help.
>>>>>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette" <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked
>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to
>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>> himself to.  but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they will
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ made
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes  then you are saying there is
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> for hell either.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>>>>> commandments
>>>>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell
>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know
>>>>>>>> Christ,
>>>>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either
>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was.  Will someone
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go to
>>>>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was here?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> any  literature other than the bible is not God inspired there
>>>>>>>>>> fore
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what i
>>>>>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven  then how to you explain
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Him to sacrafice  His life for our sins?
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a
>>>>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name prior
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>>>>> church,
>>>>>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the way,
>>>>>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans, Atheists,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a spirit
>>>>>>>>>>>> child
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>>>>> christianity."  I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an
>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall the
>>>>>>>>>>>> name)
>>>>>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have access
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet.  As a Mormon, a
>>>>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or the
>>>>>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Were
>>>>>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God because,
>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ.  I can't believe in a God who
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to Christ
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their original
>>>>>>>>>>>> faith
>>>>>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers.  So,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of
>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth,
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his commandments
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though.  I'm just
>>>>>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because someone
>>>>>>>>>>>> dies
>>>>>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts.  I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then  how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread.  Please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone.  But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian.  I think I understand why, although
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian.  It ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boils
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian.  If the only Christians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene creed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians.  But, by that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point.  If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian?  To me, it's obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian.  For us as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian.  So despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground.  Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian?  I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list.  My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it impossible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier.  Thanks for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition.  So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God.  If I'm understanding right, the biggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of interpretation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation?  I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid.  So...for you, as a Catholic, do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided?  Partially inspired but ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mistaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far?  Inspired by the devil?  I won't get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offended,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all.  That doesn't mean I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you.  Are you familiar with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity?  If so, what are your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here.  I'm pretty sure it's one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life.  But I am curious, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist?  I don't mean to procelyte, and I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list?  I won't procelyte- I won't try to baptize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>
>