[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list

Sat Apr 30 06:39:57 UTC 2011

Joshua,
  They are told, as Christians are, to kill in self-defense.  I'd
suggest you try and understand this from the prospective of the
Muslims before you make blanket statements like "muslims are
instructed to kill," and "Christians were never instructed to do any
of these things."  Exodus says point-blank that you shouldn't suffer a
witch to live---bingo!  Let's go hang lots of supposed witches because
the Bible says we can.  Leviticus says it's ok to own slaves, even
going into great detail as to how they should be treated-voila!  God's
on the side of the slave owners.
  Don't you see what I'm saying?  Everything I just wrote probably
sounds rediculous to you-as well it should.  That's how the vast
majority of Muslims feel when people say the Qu'ran gives license to
kill or, god forbid, justifies terrorism!  Think, here.

On 4/30/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Muslems are instructed to do the same things.
> The Christians were never instructed to do them.
> Christians were never told to kill, Muslems are.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
>
> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>>   What about the Salem witch trials?  Those were Protestants...killing
>> innocent people in the name of Christ.  I know you'll say people who
>> do that aren't real Christians- I agree with you!  But the Muslims who
>> are Terrorists aren't real Muslims either-the same standard applies.
>>
>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>>   Exactly!  The Muslims that blow themselves up and kill innocent
>>> people aren't real Muslims, either.  That's my point!
>>>
>>> Blessings,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 4/29/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> The ones that threatened pain, or death, were not true Christians.
>>>> The Nazis, were not real Christians, either.
>>>> You know that.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua, Barbara and all,
>>>>>   Was it love that forced Muslims and Jews to convert to Christianity,
>>>>> on pain of death, in the middle ages?  Was it Christlike love that
>>>>> sent heratics and apostates to their executions, simply for
>>>>> disagreeing with the church?  Was it christlike love that sent
>>>>> millions of Jews to the gas chambers?  Was it Christlike love that
>>>>> supressed scientific knowledge for centuries, merely for contradicting
>>>>> church dogma?  Was it Christlike love that pitted Christian against
>>>>> Christian, Catholic against Protestant, Catholic and Protestant
>>>>> against Anabaptist, and all these against the rest of the world in
>>>>> bloody wanton war?  Wait...none of that ever happened, Christians
>>>>> never tried to impose our religion by force...because we're more
>>>>> loving!
>>>>>   Please understand I'm being so vehement because I have Muslim
>>>>> friends and I know, firsthand, it is not a religion of oppression any
>>>>> more than Christianity is.  The Quran has verses which say go to war
>>>>> against the infidels who attack you first...the Old Testament has
>>>>> similar verses of scripture.  Just as most Christians do not impose,
>>>>> on pain of death, their faith on anyone else...Most Muslims live by
>>>>> their scriptures and live as good neighbors and peacable citizens.  If
>>>>> Islam is a religion of oppression, Christianity oppresses just as
>>>>> much.  It is a small minority of both religions, particularly in
>>>>> moddern times, that seeks to impose their faith on others by force of
>>>>> arms.  Both Christianity and Islam have had their share of saints and
>>>>> sinners- each religion has given birth to many good people and a few
>>>>> evil ones...but please, for the love, don't pin labels on whole
>>>>> religions just because a few verses of scripture _could_ be twisted to
>>>>> support evil.  Because, if that were true, Christianity would be just
>>>>> as evil as Islam...and I can give you the Bible verses to back that up
>>>>> if you want.
>>>>>   God bless,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/29/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Therefore, that makes it a religion of oppression.
>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:25 PM
>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>> but that verse is folloed by:
>>>>>> "but if they surrender, then do not strike."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:45 PM, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I understand it, one glaring difference--among many--between
>>>>>>> Muslim
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christian is that you have the choice to accept Christ.  You are not
>>>>>>> forced to follow the strict practices.  Another difference is that
>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are told to kill the infidels.  In the old Testament, God did tell
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Israelites to kill all the people in a place.  But when Jesus came,
>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>> told us to love. We do not need to stone adulterers as Deuteronomy or
>>>>>>> Leviticus says.  The law was given to us to see that we sin.  "All
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> sinned and fall short of the glory of God."  When Jesus came, He
>>>>>>> asked
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> would cast the first stone.  Christians are taught to love the sinner
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> hate the sin.  If a Christian turns to a different faith, we don't
>>>>>>> disclaim them as Muslims--and others--do.
>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:38 PM
>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are compelled by Jesus to share the gospel just as the Muslims
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> been instructed to spread the Quran.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is not a matter of who's right,
>>>>>>> but who's message is right for whom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> belonging to a church or not belonging has nothing to do with being
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> Christian as i understand it.  it is the personal relationship we
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> with Christ that saves us.    being a good person or not being a
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> person has nothing to do with being a Christian either as i
>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>> it, i know a lot of folks who do not believe in any supreme being
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> some of the nicest folks i know, but they do not believe in Christ
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or anything and if Christ is the only way to heaven then it would be
>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to assume they would go to heaven, like i said, if we don't have to
>>>>>>>> accept Christ as our Lord and Savior here on earth, why bother, why
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> do as we please and then worry about salvation later? there would be
>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>> need to share the gospel if we didn't ahve to accept christ  here.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:04 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>>>>>>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because of a
>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his life
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I
>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>>>>>>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life
>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that the
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> is through Christ.
>>>>>>>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement is
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is the
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> who can judge.
>>>>>>>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of
>>>>>>>>> person"
>>>>>>>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come along
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>> blows
>>>>>>>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>>>>>>>> intended in
>>>>>>>>> my choice of terms...)
>>>>>>>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the first
>>>>>>>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength, and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>>>> to love neighbor as self.  The thought crossed my mind that that
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen,
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> current unbelievable tornados.  Some people blame God for
>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> goes wrong.
>>>>>>>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can help.
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette"
>>>>>>>>> <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked
>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to
>>>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>>>> himself to.  but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ
>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes  then you are saying there is
>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> for hell either.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>>>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>>>>>>> commandments
>>>>>>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>>>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know
>>>>>>>>>> Christ,
>>>>>>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>>>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either
>>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was.  Will someone
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go to
>>>>>>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was
>>>>>>>>>>> here?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> any  literature other than the bible is not God inspired there
>>>>>>>>>>>> fore
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what i
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven  then how to you explain
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Him to sacrafice  His life for our sins?
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> church,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans, Atheists,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a spirit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> child
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> christianity."  I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet.  As a Mormon, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God because,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ.  I can't believe in a God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to Christ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers.  So,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his commandments
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though.  I'm just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts.  I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then  how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread.  Please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone.  But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian.  I think I understand why, although
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian.  It ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boils
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian.  If the only Christians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians.  But, by that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point.  If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian?  To me, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian.  For us as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian.  So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground.  Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian?  I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list.  My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it impossible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier.  Thanks for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition.  So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God.  If I'm understanding right, the biggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of interpretation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation?  I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid.  So...for you, as a Catholic, do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided?  Partially inspired but ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mistaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far?  Inspired by the devil?  I won't get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offended,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all.  That doesn't mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you.  Are you familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity?  If so, what are your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here.  I'm pretty sure it's one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life.  But I am curious, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist?  I don't mean to procelyte, and I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list?  I won't procelyte- I won't try to baptize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>