[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
Jorge Paez
computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com
Sat Apr 30 14:56:39 UTC 2011
That is only an extremest and extremely small strict version of Islam that exists in certain areas of borderline Pakistan in which the Taliban and Al-Quada makes their home.
It is not a commonly held theory.
On Apr 30, 2011, at 2:52 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> Actually, they are.
> They consider this making themselves martyrs for Ala.
> We don't believe in blowing ourselves up, to be martyrs for Christ.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>> Exactly! The Muslims that blow themselves up and kill innocent
>> people aren't real Muslims, either. That's my point!
>>
>> Blessings,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 4/29/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> The ones that threatened pain, or death, were not true Christians.
>>> The Nazis, were not real Christians, either.
>>> You know that.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua, Barbara and all,
>>>> Was it love that forced Muslims and Jews to convert to Christianity,
>>>> on pain of death, in the middle ages? Was it Christlike love that
>>>> sent heratics and apostates to their executions, simply for
>>>> disagreeing with the church? Was it christlike love that sent
>>>> millions of Jews to the gas chambers? Was it Christlike love that
>>>> supressed scientific knowledge for centuries, merely for contradicting
>>>> church dogma? Was it Christlike love that pitted Christian against
>>>> Christian, Catholic against Protestant, Catholic and Protestant
>>>> against Anabaptist, and all these against the rest of the world in
>>>> bloody wanton war? Wait...none of that ever happened, Christians
>>>> never tried to impose our religion by force...because we're more
>>>> loving!
>>>> Please understand I'm being so vehement because I have Muslim
>>>> friends and I know, firsthand, it is not a religion of oppression any
>>>> more than Christianity is. The Quran has verses which say go to war
>>>> against the infidels who attack you first...the Old Testament has
>>>> similar verses of scripture. Just as most Christians do not impose,
>>>> on pain of death, their faith on anyone else...Most Muslims live by
>>>> their scriptures and live as good neighbors and peacable citizens. If
>>>> Islam is a religion of oppression, Christianity oppresses just as
>>>> much. It is a small minority of both religions, particularly in
>>>> moddern times, that seeks to impose their faith on others by force of
>>>> arms. Both Christianity and Islam have had their share of saints and
>>>> sinners- each religion has given birth to many good people and a few
>>>> evil ones...but please, for the love, don't pin labels on whole
>>>> religions just because a few verses of scripture _could_ be twisted to
>>>> support evil. Because, if that were true, Christianity would be just
>>>> as evil as Islam...and I can give you the Bible verses to back that up
>>>> if you want.
>>>> God bless,
>>>> Kirt
>>>>
>>>> On 4/29/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>> Therefore, that makes it a religion of oppression.
>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Jorge Paez
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:25 PM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes.
>>>>> but that verse is folloed by:
>>>>> "but if they surrender, then do not strike."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:45 PM, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As I understand it, one glaring difference--among many--between Muslim
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christian is that you have the choice to accept Christ. You are not
>>>>>> forced to follow the strict practices. Another difference is that
>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> are told to kill the infidels. In the old Testament, God did tell the
>>>>>> Israelites to kill all the people in a place. But when Jesus came, He
>>>>>> told us to love. We do not need to stone adulterers as Deuteronomy or
>>>>>> Leviticus says. The law was given to us to see that we sin. "All have
>>>>>> sinned and fall short of the glory of God." When Jesus came, He asked
>>>>>> who
>>>>>>
>>>>>> would cast the first stone. Christians are taught to love the sinner
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> hate the sin. If a Christian turns to a different faith, we don't
>>>>>> disclaim them as Muslims--and others--do.
>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:38 PM
>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are compelled by Jesus to share the gospel just as the Muslims have
>>>>>> been instructed to spread the Quran.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not a matter of who's right,
>>>>>> but who's message is right for whom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> belonging to a church or not belonging has nothing to do with being a
>>>>>>> Christian as i understand it. it is the personal relationship we have
>>>>>>> with Christ that saves us. being a good person or not being a good
>>>>>>> person has nothing to do with being a Christian either as i understand
>>>>>>> it, i know a lot of folks who do not believe in any supreme being and
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> some of the nicest folks i know, but they do not believe in Christ or
>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or anything and if Christ is the only way to heaven then it would be
>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to assume they would go to heaven, like i said, if we don't have to
>>>>>>> accept Christ as our Lord and Savior here on earth, why bother, why
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> do as we please and then worry about salvation later? there would be
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> need to share the gospel if we didn't ahve to accept christ here.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:04 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>>>>>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because of a
>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his life or
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I believe
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>>>>>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life might
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that the
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>> is through Christ.
>>>>>>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement is of
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is the
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> who can judge.
>>>>>>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of
>>>>>>>> person"
>>>>>>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come along who
>>>>>>>> blows
>>>>>>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>>>>>>> intended in
>>>>>>>> my choice of terms...)
>>>>>>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the first
>>>>>>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength, and the
>>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>>> to love neighbor as self. The thought crossed my mind that that
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen, such
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> current unbelievable tornados. Some people blame God for everything
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> goes wrong.
>>>>>>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can help.
>>>>>>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette" <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked
>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to reveal
>>>>>>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they will
>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ made
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there is no
>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>> for hell either.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>>>>>> commandments
>>>>>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell because
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must, but
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know
>>>>>>>>> Christ,
>>>>>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either
>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will someone like
>>>>>>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go to
>>>>>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was here?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired there
>>>>>>>>>>> fore
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what i
>>>>>>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then how to you explain the
>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Him to sacrafice His life for our sins?
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a
>>>>>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory
>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name prior to
>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>>>>>> church,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the way,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans, Atheists,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a spirit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> child
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> name)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have access to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a Mormon, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God because,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ. I can't believe in a God who
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to Christ in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their original
>>>>>>>>>>>>> faith
>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers. So, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his commandments to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though. I'm just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dies
>>>>>>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone. But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point that was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian. I think I understand why, although I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boils
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian. If the only Christians are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene creed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians. But, by that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me, it's obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian. For us as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent life. He
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian. So despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground. Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it impossible for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong) were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God. If I'm understanding right, the biggest disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of interpretation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid. So...for you, as a Catholic, do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided? Partially inspired but ultimately mistaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get offended,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all. That doesn't mean I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life. But I am curious, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist? I don't mean to procelyte, and I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list? I won't procelyte- I won't try to baptize you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
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