[Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
Jeanette
nettiecosp at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 30 15:46:07 UTC 2011
it doesn't really matter, they worship a falst god as i understand the
bible.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
> That is only an extremest and extremely small strict version of Islam that
> exists in certain areas of borderline Pakistan in which the Taliban and
> Al-Quada makes their home.
> It is not a commonly held theory.
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2011, at 2:52 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>> Actually, they are.
>> They consider this making themselves martyrs for Ala.
>> We don't believe in blowing ourselves up, to be martyrs for Christ.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>> Exactly! The Muslims that blow themselves up and kill innocent
>>> people aren't real Muslims, either. That's my point!
>>>
>>> Blessings,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 4/29/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> The ones that threatened pain, or death, were not true Christians.
>>>> The Nazis, were not real Christians, either.
>>>> You know that.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 4/30/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua, Barbara and all,
>>>>> Was it love that forced Muslims and Jews to convert to Christianity,
>>>>> on pain of death, in the middle ages? Was it Christlike love that
>>>>> sent heratics and apostates to their executions, simply for
>>>>> disagreeing with the church? Was it christlike love that sent
>>>>> millions of Jews to the gas chambers? Was it Christlike love that
>>>>> supressed scientific knowledge for centuries, merely for contradicting
>>>>> church dogma? Was it Christlike love that pitted Christian against
>>>>> Christian, Catholic against Protestant, Catholic and Protestant
>>>>> against Anabaptist, and all these against the rest of the world in
>>>>> bloody wanton war? Wait...none of that ever happened, Christians
>>>>> never tried to impose our religion by force...because we're more
>>>>> loving!
>>>>> Please understand I'm being so vehement because I have Muslim
>>>>> friends and I know, firsthand, it is not a religion of oppression any
>>>>> more than Christianity is. The Quran has verses which say go to war
>>>>> against the infidels who attack you first...the Old Testament has
>>>>> similar verses of scripture. Just as most Christians do not impose,
>>>>> on pain of death, their faith on anyone else...Most Muslims live by
>>>>> their scriptures and live as good neighbors and peacable citizens. If
>>>>> Islam is a religion of oppression, Christianity oppresses just as
>>>>> much. It is a small minority of both religions, particularly in
>>>>> moddern times, that seeks to impose their faith on others by force of
>>>>> arms. Both Christianity and Islam have had their share of saints and
>>>>> sinners- each religion has given birth to many good people and a few
>>>>> evil ones...but please, for the love, don't pin labels on whole
>>>>> religions just because a few verses of scripture _could_ be twisted to
>>>>> support evil. Because, if that were true, Christianity would be just
>>>>> as evil as Islam...and I can give you the Bible verses to back that up
>>>>> if you want.
>>>>> God bless,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/29/11, Barbara Hammel <poetlori8 at msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Therefore, that makes it a religion of oppression.
>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:25 PM
>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes.
>>>>>> but that verse is folloed by:
>>>>>> "but if they surrender, then do not strike."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:45 PM, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I understand it, one glaring difference--among many--between
>>>>>>> Muslim
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christian is that you have the choice to accept Christ. You are not
>>>>>>> forced to follow the strict practices. Another difference is that
>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are told to kill the infidels. In the old Testament, God did tell
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Israelites to kill all the people in a place. But when Jesus came,
>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>> told us to love. We do not need to stone adulterers as Deuteronomy
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> Leviticus says. The law was given to us to see that we sin. "All
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> sinned and fall short of the glory of God." When Jesus came, He
>>>>>>> asked
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> would cast the first stone. Christians are taught to love the
>>>>>>> sinner
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> hate the sin. If a Christian turns to a different faith, we don't
>>>>>>> disclaim them as Muslims--and others--do.
>>>>>>> Barbara
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Through the sunny fields of yesterday
>>>>>>> Echo voices of children now grown,
>>>>>>> Their golden peals of laughter
>>>>>>> Ring upon the ivied stone.
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Paez
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:38 PM
>>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We are compelled by Jesus to share the gospel just as the Muslims
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> been instructed to spread the Quran.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is not a matter of who's right,
>>>>>>> but who's message is right for whom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 1:12 AM, Jeanette wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> belonging to a church or not belonging has nothing to do with being
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> Christian as i understand it. it is the personal relationship we
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> with Christ that saves us. being a good person or not being a
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> person has nothing to do with being a Christian either as i
>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>> it, i know a lot of folks who do not believe in any supreme being
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> some of the nicest folks i know, but they do not believe in Christ
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> or anything and if Christ is the only way to heaven then it would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to assume they would go to heaven, like i said, if we don't have to
>>>>>>>> accept Christ as our Lord and Savior here on earth, why bother, why
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> do as we please and then worry about salvation later? there would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>> need to share the gospel if we didn't ahve to accept christ here.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:04 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>>>>>>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>>>>>>>> Christian
>>>>>>>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because of
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his life
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I
>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>>>>>>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life
>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>> is through Christ.
>>>>>>>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement is
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is the
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> who can judge.
>>>>>>>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of
>>>>>>>>> person"
>>>>>>>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come along
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>> blows
>>>>>>>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>>>>>>>> intended in
>>>>>>>>> my choice of terms...)
>>>>>>>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the first
>>>>>>>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength, and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> second
>>>>>>>>> to love neighbor as self. The thought crossed my mind that that
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen,
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> current unbelievable tornados. Some people blame God for
>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> goes wrong.
>>>>>>>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can help.
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>>>>>>>> --le
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette"
>>>>>>>>> <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked
>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to
>>>>>>>>> reveal
>>>>>>>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way,
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ
>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there is
>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> for hell either.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez"
>>>>>>>>> <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>>>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>>>>>>> commandments
>>>>>>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>>>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell
>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's
>>>>>>>>>> commandments.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know
>>>>>>>>>> Christ,
>>>>>>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either
>>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will someone
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go to
>>>>>>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was
>>>>>>>>>>> here?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired there
>>>>>>>>>>>> fore
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what i
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then how to you explain
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Him to sacrafice His life for our sins?
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name prior
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> church,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans, Atheists,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a spirit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> child
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a Mormon,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God because,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ. I can't believe in a God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to Christ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their original
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his commandments
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though. I'm just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone. But,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian. I think I understand why,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boils
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian. If the only Christians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians. But, by that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Consider
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian. For us as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eternity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground. Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it impossible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God. If I'm understanding right, the biggest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of interpretation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid. So...for you, as a Catholic,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided? Partially inspired but ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mistaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offended,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all. That doesn't mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life. But I am curious, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist? I don't mean to procelyte, and I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list? I won't procelyte- I won't try to baptize
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/poetlori8%40msn.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
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