[Faith-talk] non-Christians on this list
Patrick Gormley
kk3f at msn.com
Sat Apr 30 16:26:57 UTC 2011
purgatory is more of a man made tradition. I can't find any place in the
scriptures where it's mentioned so as far as I'm concerned, it does not
exist.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Raquel Vega" <diva_bear at pacbell.net>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 9:29 PM
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
> Yes John, I agree with George. Being raised Catholic I've heard of
> Purgatory, but didn't really understand it. I thought it was only
> available to those who were already in the Catholic faith. Are you
> saying, if I was raised Methodist, but didn't understand or had
> misperceptions I could still become catholic after I dye? I do a lot of
> work with hospice, and I meet people from all walks of life. In my work I
> can't really discuss religion. There a lot of nice good decent people, but
> for some reason have a misperception of God and what it is to go to
> church. After praying about it I got that the character of God he'd find
> any reason to save us. He wants to leave no one, and just because you
> didn't out and out say a prayer before dyeing doesn't mean salvation is
> forever lost to you. Only God knows what's in our heart.
> I'm also wanting to know, is it possible for us to do our Purgatory here
> on earth. I know when I was sick With my anorexia, and anxiety problem, I
> thought about that. I hope I didn't ramble to much. But It seems that what
> you're saying about Purgatory matches up with what I'm saying. I think the
> Mormons have a similar belief with the baptism of the dead. Please
> correct me if I'm wrong.
> G. Raquel Vega
> Avon representative
> www.youravon.com/graquelvega1
> e-mail
> Diva_bear at pacbell.net
> My group.
> TalkinAvon-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 4:59 PM
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>> John:
>> Thank you for clarrifying,
>> I never really understood the concept of Purgatory until now.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:56 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
>>
>>> Laura,
>>>
>>> Another good post. The statement in Acts that Jesus' is the only name in
>>> which anyone can be saved means that Jesus opened the way for all
>>> humanity to participate in the mercy of God. In the Bible, Name means
>>> not a title but a capability or power. Without Jesus, no hyuman being
>>> could be with God. With him, we are all ikn His hands, which are
>>> infinitely merciful.
>>>
>>> Nonbelievers will, according to the Catholic belief in Purgatory, have a
>>> chance to accept Jesus after death.
>>>
>>> Peace, Love, Service,
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 07:04:08PM -0500, qubit wrote:
>>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>>> Christian
>>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because of a bad
>>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his life or
>>>> after
>>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I believe
>>>> that
>>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life might
>>>> have
>>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that the
>>>> only way
>>>> is through Christ.
>>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement is of an
>>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is the only
>>>> one
>>>> who can judge.
>>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of
>>>> person"
>>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come along who
>>>> blows
>>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>>> intended in
>>>> my choice of terms...)
>>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the first
>>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength, and the
>>>> second
>>>> to love neighbor as self. The thought crossed my mind that that first
>>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen, such
>>>> as the
>>>> current unbelievable tornados. Some people blame God for everything
>>>> that
>>>> goes wrong.
>>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can help.
>>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>>> --le
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jeanette" <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked forward
>>>> to
>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to reveal
>>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this is
>>>> my
>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they will go
>>>> to
>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ made on
>>>> the
>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there is no
>>>> need
>>>> for hell either.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>> commandments
>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell because
>>>>> they
>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>
>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must, but
>>>>> for
>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know Christ,
>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>
>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on the
>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>
>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either never
>>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will someone like
>>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go to hell
>>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired there fore
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what i
>>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then how to you explain the
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Him to sacrafice His life for our sins?
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a religion
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory has
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name prior to
>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>> church,
>>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the way,
>>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>> Christians,
>>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans, Atheists,
>>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a spirit
>>>>>>>>> child of
>>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an idea
>>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall the
>>>>>>>>> name)
>>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have access to
>>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a Mormon, a
>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or the
>>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of Christ.
>>>>>>>>> Were
>>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God because,
>>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ. I can't believe in a God who
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to Christ in
>>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their original faith
>>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers. So, I
>>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and
>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of people
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth, they
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his commandments to
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though. I'm just
>>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because someone dies
>>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are ultimately
>>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in Jesus
>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please understand
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone. But, with
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point that was
>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not identify
>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian. I think I understand why, although I
>>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>> boils
>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian. If the only Christians are
>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene creed,
>>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians. But, by that definition,
>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us. Consider
>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from the
>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>> separate,
>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in the
>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me, it's obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian. For us as
>>>>>>>>>>> Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent life. He
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of the
>>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for eternity.
>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian. So despite
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground. Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case there is
>>>>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in my
>>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to John,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it impossible for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong) were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God. If I'm understanding right, the biggest disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of interpretation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation provided by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only "correct"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid. So...for you, as a Catholic, do you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided? Partially inspired but ultimately mistaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get offended, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all. That doesn't mean I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your thoughts on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of the few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life. But I am curious, and I definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist? I don't mean to procelyte, and I don't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you please email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list? I won't procelyte- I won't try to baptize you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>
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>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>
>>> --
>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Faith-talk:
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>>
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>
>
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