[Faith-talk] non-Christians on this list
Jeanette
nettiecosp at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 30 17:53:22 UTC 2011
i would have to say i agree, i have been told by former catholics that they
believe it is a place that was come up with for those who could not accept
that their loved ones weren't going to heaven, for instance my ex husband
was raised catholic, he rejects god in all forms, but his mother believes
when he passes that they can pray him in to heaven which is kind of against
his will i think, at any rate i have talked to several former catholics that
do not believe this is a biblical thing. i have not ever seen any scripture
tha supports.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Gormley" <kk3f at msn.com>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2011 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-Christians on this list
> purgatory is more of a man made tradition. I can't find any place in the
> scriptures where it's mentioned so as far as I'm concerned, it does not
> exist.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Raquel Vega" <diva_bear at pacbell.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 9:29 PM
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>
>> Yes John, I agree with George. Being raised Catholic I've heard of
>> Purgatory, but didn't really understand it. I thought it was only
>> available to those who were already in the Catholic faith. Are you
>> saying, if I was raised Methodist, but didn't understand or had
>> misperceptions I could still become catholic after I dye? I do a lot of
>> work with hospice, and I meet people from all walks of life. In my work I
>> can't really discuss religion. There a lot of nice good decent people,
>> but for some reason have a misperception of God and what it is to go to
>> church. After praying about it I got that the character of God he'd find
>> any reason to save us. He wants to leave no one, and just because you
>> didn't out and out say a prayer before dyeing doesn't mean salvation is
>> forever lost to you. Only God knows what's in our heart.
>> I'm also wanting to know, is it possible for us to do our Purgatory here
>> on earth. I know when I was sick With my anorexia, and anxiety problem, I
>> thought about that. I hope I didn't ramble to much. But It seems that
>> what you're saying about Purgatory matches up with what I'm saying. I
>> think the Mormons have a similar belief with the baptism of the dead.
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>> G. Raquel Vega
>> Avon representative
>> www.youravon.com/graquelvega1
>> e-mail
>> Diva_bear at pacbell.net
>> My group.
>> TalkinAvon-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 4:59 PM
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>
>>> John:
>>> Thank you for clarrifying,
>>> I never really understood the concept of Purgatory until now.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2011, at 11:56 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Laura,
>>>>
>>>> Another good post. The statement in Acts that Jesus' is the only name
>>>> in
>>>> which anyone can be saved means that Jesus opened the way for all
>>>> humanity to participate in the mercy of God. In the Bible, Name means
>>>> not a title but a capability or power. Without Jesus, no hyuman being
>>>> could be with God. With him, we are all ikn His hands, which are
>>>> infinitely merciful.
>>>>
>>>> Nonbelievers will, according to the Catholic belief in Purgatory, have
>>>> a
>>>> chance to accept Jesus after death.
>>>>
>>>> Peace, Love, Service,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 07:04:08PM -0500, qubit wrote:
>>>>> I have one other comment -- hope I make sense...
>>>>> If someone lives a charitable, honest life, but does not join a
>>>>> Christian
>>>>> church perhaps because of personal upbringing, or even because of a
>>>>> bad
>>>>> example from a supposed Christian, then at some point in his life or
>>>>> after
>>>>> death be is exposed to the truth about Christ's teachings, I believe
>>>>> that
>>>>> person would be likely to embrace it.
>>>>> In addition, I wonder if someone who does not live a model life might
>>>>> have
>>>>> to go through some real difficulties to learn the hard way that the
>>>>> only way
>>>>> is through Christ.
>>>>> But the thing I have to believe is that whatever the judgement is of
>>>>> an
>>>>> individual, Jesus would make that decision in love, and He is the only
>>>>> one
>>>>> who can judge.
>>>>> In fact, I think whatever example you come up with of a "type of
>>>>> person"
>>>>> that would be judged one way or another, someone might come along who
>>>>> blows
>>>>> your stereotype out of the water... (Hmm -- no double meaning is
>>>>> intended in
>>>>> my choice of terms...)
>>>>> One thing that I wonder about, in the scriptures it says the first
>>>>> commandment is to love God with all might, mind and strength, and the
>>>>> second
>>>>> to love neighbor as self. The thought crossed my mind that that first
>>>>> commandment might be difficult, as when great calamities happen, such
>>>>> as the
>>>>> current unbelievable tornados. Some people blame God for everything
>>>>> that
>>>>> goes wrong.
>>>>> I think using the opportunity to pray rather than blame can help.
>>>>> Anyway, I was just thinking about it.
>>>>> --le
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jeanette" <nettiecosp at yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:57 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> the folks who lived before Christ believed in god, they looked forward
>>>>> to
>>>>> Christ the Messiah, God reveals himself to those He chooses to reveal
>>>>> himself to. but according to the bible Jesus is the only way, this is
>>>>> my
>>>>> personal belief i think by telling people if they are good they will
>>>>> go to
>>>>> heaven you are saying there is no need for the sacrafice Christ made
>>>>> on the
>>>>> cross. if being good is all it takes then you are saying there is no
>>>>> need
>>>>> for hell either.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I say Gandi is in heaven.
>>>>>> Like I said earlier, anyone who does good, and follows God's
>>>>>> commandments
>>>>>> though they don't know it obviously, is going to heaven.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because, if you think of it,
>>>>>> would all those who believed in God before Christ go to hell because
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> did not know him?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is now so much knowing him, though for us Christians we must, but
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> those who have no concept of Christ, to follow God's commandments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is written in the Second Vatican, "for those who don't know
>>>>>> Christ,
>>>>>> then God shall reveal on to them in ways that only He knows."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is perhaps suggesting that despite everything that is said on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> outside, even athiests have been shown some light?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some compulsion to do good, dispite their outwards denial of God?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 4:59 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe you absolutely need Jesus- but I have to reconcile that
>>>>>>> belief with the fact that most people throughout history either
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>> heard of Christ, or had no real idea who he was. Will someone like
>>>>>>> Gandhi, who did an incredible amount of good in this life, go to
>>>>>>> hell
>>>>>>> simply because he didn't accept Jesus as savior while he was here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> any literature other than the bible is not God inspired there
>>>>>>>> fore is
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> reliable. just my opinion, not criticizing anyone, just what i
>>>>>>>> believe,
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> you do not need Jesus to go to Heaven then how to you explain the
>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Him to sacrafice His life for our sins?
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:14 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] non-christians on this list
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>> I agree with your view,
>>>>>>>>> my difference being that although all are children of God,
>>>>>>>>> only those who do good shall be saved, weather they have a
>>>>>>>>> religion or
>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, quick FYI, apparently I was just reading that this theory has
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> written by
>>>>>>>>> Pope Benedict the 16th, though I can't remember his name prior to
>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This was also included in the Second Vatican of the Catholic
>>>>>>>>> church,
>>>>>>>>> and if anyone's interested in research on this topic by the way,
>>>>>>>>> I've found Bookshare to be a surprisingly reliable source.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jorge,
>>>>>>>>>> My church teaches that all humans are children of God.
>>>>>>>>>> Christians,
>>>>>>>>>> Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Bahais, Wiccans, Atheists,
>>>>>>>>>> Satanists, murderers, rapists, everyone is literally a spirit
>>>>>>>>>> child of
>>>>>>>>>> god.
>>>>>>>>>> Also, you might be interested in the idea of "anonimous
>>>>>>>>>> christianity." I'm not going to do it justice, but it was an
>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>> advanced by a certain catholic theologian (I can't recall the
>>>>>>>>>> name)
>>>>>>>>>> that basically all people living christlike lives have access to
>>>>>>>>>> Christ's grace, though they don't know it yet. As a Mormon, a
>>>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>>> part of my faith is that, some day, either in this life or the
>>>>>>>>>> next,
>>>>>>>>>> all people will have the chance to hear the gospel of Christ.
>>>>>>>>>> Were
>>>>>>>>>> this not true, God would not be a fair and just God because,
>>>>>>>>>> throughout the ages, there have been billions of people who
>>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>>> never even heard of Jesus Christ. I can't believe in a God who
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> damn someone merely because they were never exposed to Christ in
>>>>>>>>>> mortal life, or because they chose to live by their original
>>>>>>>>>> faith
>>>>>>>>>> instead, without really understanding what Christ offers. So, I
>>>>>>>>>> believe that heaven will be full of Mormons and Catholics and
>>>>>>>>>> Muslims
>>>>>>>>>> and HIndus and all manner of religions...at least, full of people
>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> believed all manner of religions while living here on earth, they
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> all have accepted Christ as savior and lived his commandments to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> best of their abilities before being saved, though. I'm just
>>>>>>>>>> rambling...but basically I believe that, just because someone
>>>>>>>>>> dies
>>>>>>>>>> without faith in Christ, I don't believe they are ultimately
>>>>>>>>>> condemned
>>>>>>>>>> to hell unless they reject Christ later.
>>>>>>>>>> Just my thoughts. I'd welcome discussion or civilized debate.
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/28/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with you completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, if you look at the ancient documents and text,
>>>>>>>>>>> you will see that Christians started out as one group.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then for various reasons,
>>>>>>>>>>> divided,
>>>>>>>>>>> so in a way, we are both following the original tradition.
>>>>>>>>>>> But,
>>>>>>>>>>> that brings me to my point.
>>>>>>>>>>> What do we, as Christians, consider acceptable behavior for
>>>>>>>>>>> "children
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> God?"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that our Christianity stems from our belief in
>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>> Christ.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But then how do we define "children of God?"
>>>>>>>>>>> Would we consider Muslims as "children of God", despite their
>>>>>>>>>>> views
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus Christ being different then ours?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or do we also define "Children Of God" how we define
>>>>>>>>>>> "Christian?"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just food for thought.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I need to respond to this thread. Please
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> not trying to spark controversy, I don't intend to debate
>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>> here,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm not trying to impose my own faith on anyone. But, with
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> disclaimer out of the way, I want to answer one point that was
>>>>>>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>> John, you said some of your LDS (Mormon) friends do not
>>>>>>>>>>>> identify
>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves as Christian. I think I understand why, although I
>>>>>>>>>>>> whole-heartedly proclaim myself a Christian. It ultimately
>>>>>>>>>>>> boils
>>>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>>>> to your definition of a Christian. If the only Christians are
>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>> who worship the Trinity as God, and confess the Nycene creed,
>>>>>>>>>>>> then I
>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose we Mormons aren't Christians. But, by that definition,
>>>>>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>>>>> excluding some of the most Christian people among us. Consider
>>>>>>>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lester, a oneness pentecostal who does not believe in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinity.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would anyone here, on this list, seriously claim he isn't a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>> His understanding of God as one person is as different from the
>>>>>>>>>>>> traditional Trinity as my understanding of God as three
>>>>>>>>>>>> separate,
>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive personages who are one in purpose rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> substance.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet I have seen his denomination attacked and criticized in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>> for being "unChristian", just as mine has been.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So this brings me to my next point. If Christians aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>> Trinitarians, what defines a Christian? To me, it's obvious.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>> who accepts Christ as lord and savior and relies exclusively
>>>>>>>>>>>> upon
>>>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>>>> as the only means of salvation is a Christian. For us as
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jesus is not just a good moral guide for an excelent life. He
>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> just an inspired teacher or prophet- he is a member of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> godhead,
>>>>>>>>>>>> our redemer and, ultimately, the only true savior for
>>>>>>>>>>>> humankind.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Without Christ we are doomed and lost, we need his atoning
>>>>>>>>>>>> sacrifice
>>>>>>>>>>>> in our lives both to purify us now and cleanse us for eternity.
>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>> book, if you agree with that, you're a Christian. So despite
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> numerous and significant theological differences between
>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> Protestants and Mormons and Oneness Pentecostals and Orthadox
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christians, we all have that common ground. Are Mormons
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christian?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are Oneness pentecostals Christian? I answer, emphatically,
>>>>>>>>>>>> "yes!"
>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmest regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This happens sometimes, and I've known people to be really
>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at some of the things they said. However, in this case there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for embarrassment. i felt that the information I gave in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be good for the whole list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Easter,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 01:44:57PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> o> Woops...I sent a message thinking it would go just to John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went to the whole list. My sincere appologies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/22/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do believe you are right in the divisions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I myself am a Catholic, but have taken the time to study the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> religions of the world (Judaism and Islam), and we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reformation in school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to my understanding, the majesterium mandated at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all bibles bee in Latin, therefore making it impossible for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "common
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people" to read,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while the protestants (please correct me if I'm wrong) were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start reading the bible in common languages, believing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be read and understood by each and every believer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I correct?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jorge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never replied to your message earlier. Thanks for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the Majesterium and Tradition. So, if I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your belief that the majesterium/teaching arm of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholic church is simply clarifying the revelation already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other words, Jesus was and the Bible was the complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Revelation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God. If I'm understanding right, the biggest disagreement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Catholics and Protestants is a matter of interpretation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For you, am I right in saying the interpretation provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tradition/majesterium is authoritativ and the only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct" way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at scripture, while in Protestant Christianity it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reader's own interpretation? I know that's a huge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalization,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but would you say I'm right there?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyways...I'm also curious about another statement you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> made.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said something to the effect of believing Joseph Smith's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vissions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genuine, but not valid. So...for you, as a Catholic, do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was misguided? Partially inspired but ultimately mistaken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it too far? Inspired by the devil? I won't get offended,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honest opinion and I'm not going to take it personally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And, religious dialogue is definitely important...I'd say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escential.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there's much to learn from all religions, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced God has inspired them all. That doesn't mean I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything every faith claims, but I see the hand of God
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the religious world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have one other question for you. Are you familiar with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of anonimous Christianity? If so, what are your thoughts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm definitely Christian, but I'm all for interrelitious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact, I think that is part of my particular work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go to my website, http://www.godtouches.org you will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motto is "peace, love, service". I think that my work of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evangelization
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is to spread these attitudes of Christ even in the secular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 09:25:24PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very much enjoy all the devotionals and prayer requests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions on here. I'm pretty sure it's one of the few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worthwhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distractions in life. But I am curious, and I definitely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to offend, if there are any non-christian regular readers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mailinglist? I don't mean to procelyte, and I don't want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thread
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to turn into an overblown theological debate, but I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interested
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in talking with and learning from people from other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faiths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, and you wouldn't mind talking, would you please
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email me
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list? I won't procelyte- I won't try to baptize you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just want a friendly dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> God bless,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>>>>>>>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/lauraeaves%40yahoo.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/john%40godtouches.org
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Faith-talk:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/computertechjorgepaez%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Faith-talk mailing list
>>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Faith-talk:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/diva_bear%40pacbell.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/kk3f%40msn.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Faith-talk mailing list
> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Faith-talk:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/nettiecosp%40yahoo.com
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