[Faith-talk] sin!

Tue Aug 9 19:33:23 UTC 2011

I do make mistakes, like everyone else.
I'm human.
I just don't stay there.
Please read John Wesley's writings, and you'll understand, the way I
was raised, and taught from the scriptures.
Blessings, Joshua

On 8/9/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
> i think you are very judgemental and idealistic, we are all sinners, none of
> us are  perfect, everyone stumbles except maybe you frm the way you talk.
> we are free in christ and to make up rules that folks have to follow is
> leagalism and although i agree with you that drinking to extreme and
> dressing immodestly and telling bad jokes are things we as Christians should
> not be a part of , i would never judge anyone about what they do, it is
> between them and God, do i feel that theya re stumbling, yes?  do i feel
> that they are struggling, yes. do i pray for them? yes, but do i judge them?
> no.  we are not to judge folks, look at the fruit in their lives, yes.  but
> rules and regulations are what folks get tangled up in instead of sharing
> God's love, if you talk to folks who have issues with the church, some
> folks, the rules are what they struggle with, Jesus did not give us rules we
> have to follow and if we don't we are not saved, He gave us  His sacrafice
> on the cross, He gives us forgiveness and  He gives us eternal life, rigid
> rules are not our Savior at all, that is legalism and not a part of the
> gospel of Jesus Christ, i do not agree with the behavior of some folks or
> even the dress of some folks, but i refuse to judge them and say theya re
> not Christians because they do things i do not agree with.
> we are to love those who are in different places in their walks with Christ.
> as to once saved always saved, i donot support this doctrine in any way, but
> i maintain the Bible tells us we are sinners til we get to heaven, we are
> filthy rags and we need our Savior and the Holy spirit to guide us through
> the world we are in for but a while.
> repentance for sure is what wea re to have when we sin, but if you think
> because we are saved we no longer sin then you read a  different bible than
> i do, we will sin, you are just trying to make yourself better than others
> if you think  you do not sin, i know i do daily and dailty i confess the
> things i do that i know are wrong, i do not do them willfully but i slip and
> i fall and praise God that i have my Savior to turn to when i fail and He
> will forgive me if i am repentant, for sure there are those who think they
> can do as they please and confees to God or a priest or something and go on
> doing as they please,  i do not think this is what we are talking about.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] sin!
>
>
>> Rex, using your ideas, I can agree.
>> I agree with what you're saying, but John Wesley words it differently.
>> Have you read Wesley's writings?
>> We as believers shouldn't live in a lifestyle of sin.
>> Those that believe in this "Once saved, always saved," stuff believe
>> that we sin, (habitually,) in word, thought and deed.
>> That's my problem.
>> You have people, that call themselves Christians, but they smoke,
>> drink, mess around, etc.
>> This reminds me of my youth group.
>> I'd ask my friends, (these were boys in my AG youth group,) what
>> they've been doing.
>> Their response was a joking one, but still sinful.
>> "Smoking weed."
>> The Bible says, "let no corrupt communication proceed forth, out of thy
>> mouth."
>> It also says, that we're not to even let sin be mentioned, among us.
>> We shouldn't be partaking in sin.
>> If we're Christians, (which means Christlike,) we're to be an example.
>> We should be different from the world.
>> We should listen to Godly music, not secular music.
>> We shouldn't watch worldly garbage, on TV.
>> We shouldn't tell filthy jokes, or use profanity.
>> It bothers me, to hear someone say, "I love Jesus," but their life
>> doesn't prove it.
>> We shouldn't dress like the world.
>> We had a lady, (the wife of the worship leader,) come into church,
>> with a halter top.
>> Do you know what that is?
>> A halter top, is shorter than a mini-skirt.
>> Whatever happened to modesty?
>> What's going on?
>> We, as Christians have put up with too much mess, and God is not pleased!
>> He's not returning for a church, like this!
>> He's returning for a church, without spot or wrinkle.
>> We can't stay in sin.
>> We need to repent, (change direction.)
>> Repentance isn't, "Oh God, I'm sorry," and then going back into that mess.
>> It's asking forgiveness, and living holy, turning your back on sin.
>> We no longer are sinners, when we get saved, because the sin nature is
>> dead.
>> We only become sinners again, when we let that sin nature resurrect
>> itself, but who would want to?
>> Keep that flesh crucified daily, and ask God to help you avoid sin.
>> "Lead us not, into temptation, but deliver us from evil."
>> Lord, keep me, and guide my feet, so I don't stumble back into sin.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 8/9/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>>> I have some thoughts on what Joshua said about shortcomings versus sin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When I mess up, and I do sometimes, I consider it sin. I consider it sin
>>> because I have acted outside of the will of God. I have acted in
>>> disobedience to God's word. I have allowed my flesh to overcome my spirit
>>> man.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is not a shortcoming, it is sin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However, it is not willful or habitual. I do not, at any time, wish to
>>> live
>>> in willful or habitual sin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't like dirty jokes, strong language, fowl movies and the like. Some
>>> people may say that I'm a fanatic for taking that approach and that's
>>> fine,
>>> Jesus was called a fanatic so I think I'm in good company.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I simply know that if I bring garbage into my heart, garbage will come
>>> out
>>> of my mouth and eventually garbage would take over my life. The fact that
>>>
>>> I
>>> am saved prevents me from ever wanting that to happen.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are two excerpts regarding sin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The first is from a book called "the Gospel to be Preached," written by
>>> Dave
>>> Andrus. The second is from David Guzik's commentary on I John.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >From "the Gospel to be Preached"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When we think of sin it is often associated with an act of disobedience.
>>> Although true, this is incomplete.  Sin is more than mere conduct or
>>> deeds
>>> contrary to a rule, command or law.  Sin is an attitude or disposition
>>> toward God.  It is from this attitude or disposition, against God, that
>>> specific words or deeds originate.  Deeds or acts in and of themselves
>>> are
>>> not necessarily wrong.  If this were not so, Jesus would not have
>>> condemned
>>> the Pharisees. (Matthew 23)
>>>
>>>      The Pharisees were very devout law abiding people who believed that
>>> if
>>> you did not do a thing wrong, God would accept you into heaven.  In
>>> Matthew,
>>> chapters 5 through 7, Jesus taught that a person's motivation,
>>> disposition,
>>> and attitudes were also sinful.  As a general rule, behavior does not
>>> control a person, but a person controls their behavior.  This corresponds
>>>
>>> to
>>> sin in that we are not sinful because we did something wrong.  Instead we
>>>
>>> do
>>> wrong things because we are already sinful, inclined to do wrong, right
>>> from
>>> the start. Traditionally we call this original sin.
>>>
>>>      Why is this important?  It is so for several reasons.  First, anyone
>>> who has this attitude or motivation to sin, does not have a good, happy
>>> or
>>> right relationship with God.  The Bible describes us as enemies of God.
>>> (Romans 5:7)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1 John 3:6 (KJV)Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth
>>> hath
>>> not seen him, neither known him.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1 John 1:7-9 (KJV) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we
>>> have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
>>> cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive
>>> ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is
>>> faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
>>> unrighteousness.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >From David Guzik's commentary on 1 John.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. (4-5) The nature of sin and Jesus' work in removing our sin.
>>>
>>> Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And
>>> you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there
>>> is
>>> no sin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> a. Sin is lawlessness: John defines sin at its most basic root. It is a
>>> disregard for the law of God, which is inherently a disregard for the law
>>> Maker, God Himself.
>>>
>>> i. We often fail in the battle against sin because we won't call it for
>>> what
>>> it is: lawlessness, an offense against the Great Law Maker, God. Instead,
>>>
>>> we
>>> say things like "If I've done anything wrong . . ." or "Mistakes were
>>> made .
>>> . ." and so forth. Call it for what it is: sin and lawlessness. "The
>>> first
>>> step towards holy living is to recognize the true nature and wickedness
>>> of
>>> sin." (Stott)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. (6) Abiding in sin or abiding in God.
>>>
>>> Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor
>>> known Him.
>>>
>>> a. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: Since sin is lawlessness, a
>>> disregard
>>> for God (1 John 3:4), and since Jesus came to take away our sins (1 John
>>> 3:5), and since in Jesus there is no sin (1 John 3:5), then to abide in
>>> Him
>>> means to not sin.
>>>
>>> i. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when it
>>> does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense
>>> John
>>> uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. John
>>> has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive
>>> ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar
>>> indicates
>>> John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 3:6
>>> indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of sin.
>>> John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection.
>>>
>>> ii. "The present tense in the Greek verb implied habit, continuity,
>>> unbroken
>>> sequence" (Stott); the NIV has the right idea when it translates these
>>> verbs
>>> with phrases such as keeps on sinning, continues to sin, and he cannot go
>>>
>>> on
>>> sinning.
>>>
>>> b. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John's message is plain and
>>> consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life style
>>>
>>> of
>>> habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A
>>> true
>>> Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin.
>>>
>>> i. Paul's teaching in Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. He
>>> shows us that when a person comes to Jesus, when their sins are forgiven
>>> and
>>> God's grace is extended to them, they are radically changed - the old man
>>>
>>> is
>>> dead, and the new man lives. So it is utterly incompatible for a new
>>> creation in Christ to be comfortable in habitual sin; such a place can
>>> only
>>> be temporary for the Christian.
>>>
>>> ii. In some ways, the question is not "do you sin or not?" We each sin.
>>> The
>>> question is, "How do you react when you sin? Do you give into the pattern
>>>
>>> of
>>> sin, and let it dominate your lifestyle? Or do you humbly confess your
>>> sin,
>>> and do battle against it with the power Jesus can give?"
>>>
>>> iii. This is why it is so grieving to see Christians make excuses for
>>> their
>>> sin, and not humbly confess them. Unless the sin is dealt with squarely,
>>> it
>>> will contribute to a pattern of sin that may soon become their
>>> lifestyle -
>>> perhaps a secret lifestyle, but a lifestyle nonetheless.
>>>
>>> iv. What is important is that we never sign a "peace treaty" with sin. We
>>> never wink at its presence or excuse it by saying, "Everybody has their
>>> own
>>> sinful areas, and this is mine. Jesus understands." This completely goes
>>> against everything we are in Jesus, and the work He has done in our life.
>>>
>>> c. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him: To live a lifestyle
>>> of
>>> habitual sin is to demonstrate that you have not seen Him (in a present
>>> sense of the ultimate "seeing Him mentioned in 1 John 3:2), and that you
>>> have not known Him. There are some people so great and so wonderful that
>>> seeing them or knowing them will change your life forever. Jesus is that
>>> kind of person.
>>>
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