[Faith-talk] sin!

[Jeanette]

i don't think any of us stay there, we all sin, mistakes are different than 
sin and there is nothing shameful in calling sin sin i think some folks 
think if they call it something other than sin it indicates they are beeter 
than the Christians they view as fallen or something. we are equally 
sinners, none better than any other, we are  to love one another and share 
the truth of Christ with each other, it s the arguing over doctrine and the 
legalism that turns folks away from Christianity, i used to be more 
legalistic and the Lord has shown me how this is wrong.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion" 
<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] sin!


>I do make mistakes, like everyone else.
> I'm human.
> I just don't stay there.
> Please read John Wesley's writings, and you'll understand, the way I
> was raised, and taught from the scriptures.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 8/9/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> i think you are very judgemental and idealistic, we are all sinners, none 
>> of
>> us are  perfect, everyone stumbles except maybe you frm the way you talk.
>> we are free in christ and to make up rules that folks have to follow is
>> leagalism and although i agree with you that drinking to extreme and
>> dressing immodestly and telling bad jokes are things we as Christians 
>> should
>> not be a part of , i would never judge anyone about what they do, it is
>> between them and God, do i feel that theya re stumbling, yes?  do i feel
>> that they are struggling, yes. do i pray for them? yes, but do i judge 
>> them?
>> no.  we are not to judge folks, look at the fruit in their lives, yes. 
>> but
>> rules and regulations are what folks get tangled up in instead of sharing
>> God's love, if you talk to folks who have issues with the church, some
>> folks, the rules are what they struggle with, Jesus did not give us rules 
>> we
>> have to follow and if we don't we are not saved, He gave us  His 
>> sacrafice
>> on the cross, He gives us forgiveness and  He gives us eternal life, 
>> rigid
>> rules are not our Savior at all, that is legalism and not a part of the
>> gospel of Jesus Christ, i do not agree with the behavior of some folks or
>> even the dress of some folks, but i refuse to judge them and say theya re
>> not Christians because they do things i do not agree with.
>> we are to love those who are in different places in their walks with 
>> Christ.
>> as to once saved always saved, i donot support this doctrine in any way, 
>> but
>> i maintain the Bible tells us we are sinners til we get to heaven, we are
>> filthy rags and we need our Savior and the Holy spirit to guide us 
>> through
>> the world we are in for but a while.
>> repentance for sure is what wea re to have when we sin, but if you think
>> because we are saved we no longer sin then you read a  different bible 
>> than
>> i do, we will sin, you are just trying to make yourself better than 
>> others
>> if you think  you do not sin, i know i do daily and dailty i confess the
>> things i do that i know are wrong, i do not do them willfully but i slip 
>> and
>> i fall and praise God that i have my Savior to turn to when i fail and He
>> will forgive me if i am repentant, for sure there are those who think 
>> they
>> can do as they please and confees to God or a priest or something and go 
>> on
>> doing as they please,  i do not think this is what we are talking about.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 12:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] sin!
>>
>>
>>> Rex, using your ideas, I can agree.
>>> I agree with what you're saying, but John Wesley words it differently.
>>> Have you read Wesley's writings?
>>> We as believers shouldn't live in a lifestyle of sin.
>>> Those that believe in this "Once saved, always saved," stuff believe
>>> that we sin, (habitually,) in word, thought and deed.
>>> That's my problem.
>>> You have people, that call themselves Christians, but they smoke,
>>> drink, mess around, etc.
>>> This reminds me of my youth group.
>>> I'd ask my friends, (these were boys in my AG youth group,) what
>>> they've been doing.
>>> Their response was a joking one, but still sinful.
>>> "Smoking weed."
>>> The Bible says, "let no corrupt communication proceed forth, out of thy
>>> mouth."
>>> It also says, that we're not to even let sin be mentioned, among us.
>>> We shouldn't be partaking in sin.
>>> If we're Christians, (which means Christlike,) we're to be an example.
>>> We should be different from the world.
>>> We should listen to Godly music, not secular music.
>>> We shouldn't watch worldly garbage, on TV.
>>> We shouldn't tell filthy jokes, or use profanity.
>>> It bothers me, to hear someone say, "I love Jesus," but their life
>>> doesn't prove it.
>>> We shouldn't dress like the world.
>>> We had a lady, (the wife of the worship leader,) come into church,
>>> with a halter top.
>>> Do you know what that is?
>>> A halter top, is shorter than a mini-skirt.
>>> Whatever happened to modesty?
>>> What's going on?
>>> We, as Christians have put up with too much mess, and God is not 
>>> pleased!
>>> He's not returning for a church, like this!
>>> He's returning for a church, without spot or wrinkle.
>>> We can't stay in sin.
>>> We need to repent, (change direction.)
>>> Repentance isn't, "Oh God, I'm sorry," and then going back into that 
>>> mess.
>>> It's asking forgiveness, and living holy, turning your back on sin.
>>> We no longer are sinners, when we get saved, because the sin nature is
>>> dead.
>>> We only become sinners again, when we let that sin nature resurrect
>>> itself, but who would want to?
>>> Keep that flesh crucified daily, and ask God to help you avoid sin.
>>> "Lead us not, into temptation, but deliver us from evil."
>>> Lord, keep me, and guide my feet, so I don't stumble back into sin.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 8/9/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
>>>> I have some thoughts on what Joshua said about shortcomings versus sin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I mess up, and I do sometimes, I consider it sin. I consider it 
>>>> sin
>>>> because I have acted outside of the will of God. I have acted in
>>>> disobedience to God's word. I have allowed my flesh to overcome my 
>>>> spirit
>>>> man.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is not a shortcoming, it is sin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> However, it is not willful or habitual. I do not, at any time, wish to
>>>> live
>>>> in willful or habitual sin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't like dirty jokes, strong language, fowl movies and the like. 
>>>> Some
>>>> people may say that I'm a fanatic for taking that approach and that's
>>>> fine,
>>>> Jesus was called a fanatic so I think I'm in good company.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I simply know that if I bring garbage into my heart, garbage will come
>>>> out
>>>> of my mouth and eventually garbage would take over my life. The fact 
>>>> that
>>>>
>>>> I
>>>> am saved prevents me from ever wanting that to happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here are two excerpts regarding sin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The first is from a book called "the Gospel to be Preached," written by
>>>> Dave
>>>> Andrus. The second is from David Guzik's commentary on I John.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >From "the Gospel to be Preached"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When we think of sin it is often associated with an act of 
>>>> disobedience.
>>>> Although true, this is incomplete.  Sin is more than mere conduct or
>>>> deeds
>>>> contrary to a rule, command or law.  Sin is an attitude or disposition
>>>> toward God.  It is from this attitude or disposition, against God, that
>>>> specific words or deeds originate.  Deeds or acts in and of themselves
>>>> are
>>>> not necessarily wrong.  If this were not so, Jesus would not have
>>>> condemned
>>>> the Pharisees. (Matthew 23)
>>>>
>>>>      The Pharisees were very devout law abiding people who believed 
>>>> that
>>>> if
>>>> you did not do a thing wrong, God would accept you into heaven.  In
>>>> Matthew,
>>>> chapters 5 through 7, Jesus taught that a person's motivation,
>>>> disposition,
>>>> and attitudes were also sinful.  As a general rule, behavior does not
>>>> control a person, but a person controls their behavior.  This 
>>>> corresponds
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>> sin in that we are not sinful because we did something wrong.  Instead 
>>>> we
>>>>
>>>> do
>>>> wrong things because we are already sinful, inclined to do wrong, right
>>>> from
>>>> the start. Traditionally we call this original sin.
>>>>
>>>>      Why is this important?  It is so for several reasons.  First, 
>>>> anyone
>>>> who has this attitude or motivation to sin, does not have a good, happy
>>>> or
>>>> right relationship with God.  The Bible describes us as enemies of God.
>>>> (Romans 5:7)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1 John 3:6 (KJV)Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth
>>>> hath
>>>> not seen him, neither known him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1 John 1:7-9 (KJV) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, 
>>>> we
>>>> have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son
>>>> cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive
>>>> ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is
>>>> faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
>>>> unrighteousness.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >From David Guzik's commentary on 1 John.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. (4-5) The nature of sin and Jesus' work in removing our sin.
>>>>
>>>> Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 
>>>> And
>>>> you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there
>>>> is
>>>> no sin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> a. Sin is lawlessness: John defines sin at its most basic root. It is a
>>>> disregard for the law of God, which is inherently a disregard for the 
>>>> law
>>>> Maker, God Himself.
>>>>
>>>> i. We often fail in the battle against sin because we won't call it for
>>>> what
>>>> it is: lawlessness, an offense against the Great Law Maker, God. 
>>>> Instead,
>>>>
>>>> we
>>>> say things like "If I've done anything wrong . . ." or "Mistakes were
>>>> made .
>>>> . ." and so forth. Call it for what it is: sin and lawlessness. "The
>>>> first
>>>> step towards holy living is to recognize the true nature and wickedness
>>>> of
>>>> sin." (Stott)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. (6) Abiding in sin or abiding in God.
>>>>
>>>> Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him 
>>>> nor
>>>> known Him.
>>>>
>>>> a. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: Since sin is lawlessness, a
>>>> disregard
>>>> for God (1 John 3:4), and since Jesus came to take away our sins (1 
>>>> John
>>>> 3:5), and since in Jesus there is no sin (1 John 3:5), then to abide in
>>>> Him
>>>> means to not sin.
>>>>
>>>> i. It is very important to understand what the Bible means - and when 
>>>> it
>>>> does not mean - when it says does not sin. According to the verb tense
>>>> John
>>>> uses, does not sin means does not live a life style of habitual sin. 
>>>> John
>>>> has already told us in 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive
>>>> ourselves, and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 1:8, the grammar
>>>> indicates
>>>> John is speaking about occasional acts of sin. The grammar of 1 John 
>>>> 3:6
>>>> indicates that John is speaking of a settled, continued lifestyle of 
>>>> sin.
>>>> John is not teaching here the possibility of sinless perfection.
>>>>
>>>> ii. "The present tense in the Greek verb implied habit, continuity,
>>>> unbroken
>>>> sequence" (Stott); the NIV has the right idea when it translates these
>>>> verbs
>>>> with phrases such as keeps on sinning, continues to sin, and he cannot 
>>>> go
>>>>
>>>> on
>>>> sinning.
>>>>
>>>> b. Whoever abides in Him does not sin: John's message is plain and
>>>> consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. It tells us that a life 
>>>> style
>>>>
>>>> of
>>>> habitual sin is inconsistent with a life of abiding in Jesus Christ. A
>>>> true
>>>> Christian can only be temporarily in a life style of sin.
>>>>
>>>> i. Paul's teaching in Romans 6 is a great example of this principle. He
>>>> shows us that when a person comes to Jesus, when their sins are 
>>>> forgiven
>>>> and
>>>> God's grace is extended to them, they are radically changed - the old 
>>>> man
>>>>
>>>> is
>>>> dead, and the new man lives. So it is utterly incompatible for a new
>>>> creation in Christ to be comfortable in habitual sin; such a place can
>>>> only
>>>> be temporary for the Christian.
>>>>
>>>> ii. In some ways, the question is not "do you sin or not?" We each sin.
>>>> The
>>>> question is, "How do you react when you sin? Do you give into the 
>>>> pattern
>>>>
>>>> of
>>>> sin, and let it dominate your lifestyle? Or do you humbly confess your
>>>> sin,
>>>> and do battle against it with the power Jesus can give?"
>>>>
>>>> iii. This is why it is so grieving to see Christians make excuses for
>>>> their
>>>> sin, and not humbly confess them. Unless the sin is dealt with 
>>>> squarely,
>>>> it
>>>> will contribute to a pattern of sin that may soon become their
>>>> lifestyle -
>>>> perhaps a secret lifestyle, but a lifestyle nonetheless.
>>>>
>>>> iv. What is important is that we never sign a "peace treaty" with sin. 
>>>> We
>>>> never wink at its presence or excuse it by saying, "Everybody has their
>>>> own
>>>> sinful areas, and this is mine. Jesus understands." This completely 
>>>> goes
>>>> against everything we are in Jesus, and the work He has done in our 
>>>> life.
>>>>
>>>> c. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him: To live a lifestyle
>>>> of
>>>> habitual sin is to demonstrate that you have not seen Him (in a present
>>>> sense of the ultimate "seeing Him mentioned in 1 John 3:2), and that 
>>>> you
>>>> have not known Him. There are some people so great and so wonderful 
>>>> that
>>>> seeing them or knowing them will change your life forever. Jesus is 
>>>> that
>>>> kind of person.
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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