[Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons

Fri Jun 3 19:34:56 UTC 2011

Well I would never be contentious with regard to anyone's belief. I can
speak what I believe and give examples and provide resources but that's
where it ends. I believe that the most important aspect of Christianity is
that we cannot save ourselves, Jesus came and died on the cross for our sins
that we might have eternal life. Jesus came to save the world and not to
condemn the world so, if Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, what makes
me think I have a right to operate in condemnation of the world. This does
not mean that I condone sinful behavior but it does mean that I understand
we are all born into sin and we get out of spiritual death not by our works
(although our works represent faith) but by the works of Christ Jesus who
makes salvation and eternal life possible.

-----Original Message-----
From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 2:22 PM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons

Rex,
  Remind me never to get in a debate with you.  *grin*

On 6/3/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
> I think this is an interesting debate and it is interesting the different
> positions that people take on this issue.
>
> Normally, I do not get caught up in debate over Christian theology but I
did
> want to provide some information on this discussion.
>
> I believe that in order to understand submission and subordination (we
> submit to one another, we submit to the church, the church submits to God)
> then we should try to understand the principle of the trinity.
>
> I believe firmly that there is one God represented in three.
>
> I listened to the video on YouTube but I cannot buy into that teaching.
>
> Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
let
> them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air,
and
> over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that
> creeps on the earth."
>
>
>
> a. Let Us make man in Our image: The use of the plural (Let Us . . . in
Our
> image, according to Our likeness) is consistent with the idea that there
is
> One God in three Persons, what we know as the Trinity.
>
>
>
> i. Leupold does a good job showing that the plurality of let Us make
cannot
> be merely the plurality of royalty, nor can it be God speaking with and to
> the angels. It is an indicator of the Trinity, though not clearly spelled
> out.
>
>
>
>
> http://enduringword.com/commentaries/0101.htm
> Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
>
> Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the
Trinity
> is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The
> Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully
> understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are;
> therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The
> Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy
> Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though
we
> can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons
of
> the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the
human
> mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is
not
> based on the teachings of the Bible.
>
> The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is
> not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this
> subject that the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. This is a term
> that is used to attempt to describe the triune God-three coexistent,
> co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept
> represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. The following
is
> what God's Word says about the Trinity:
>
> 1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1
> Timothy 2:5).
>
> 2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7;
> Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In
> Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26,
3:22,
> 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. The word
"Elohim"
> and the pronoun "us" are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew
> language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the
> Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word
for
> "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.
>
> In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to
the
> Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see
that
> it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus'
> baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the
> Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19
> and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the
> Trinity.
>
> 3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in
various
> passages. In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord"
(Genesis
> 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4).
The
> Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God"
> (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm
> 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father
> about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that
> Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit.
Consider
> also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father.
> Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the
> Trinity-the Father.
>
> 4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans
> 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians
2:9;
> Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1
Corinthians
> 3:16).
>
> 5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the
Holy
> Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is
subordinate
> to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the
deity
> of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite
minds
> cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke
> 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit
> see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
>
> 6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father
is
> the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6;
Revelation
> 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and
> Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these
> things.
>
> The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the
> creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3;
> Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27;
> Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John
> 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as
> His agent.
>
> The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works:
> creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm
> 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21);
> salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah
61:1;
> Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the
Holy
> Spirit.
>
> There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity.
> However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The
egg
> (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg,
> not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple
> are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
are
> not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat
> better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid,
> vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are
not
> forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give
us
> a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An
infinite
> God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
>
> The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the
entire
> history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are
> clearly presented in God's Word, some of the side issues are not as
> explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit
is
> God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the
Trinity.
> Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and
> non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our
> finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of
> God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. "Oh, the depth of the
> riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments,
> and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or
who
> has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34).
>
> Recommended Resource: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions
> by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.
> http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Tom Vos
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 1:41 PM
> To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons
>
> I realize that this list includes people from many faith traditions, but I
> wish to make clear that the Christian Church has been overwhelmingly
united
> in affirming the Trinity.
>
> The idea that Jesus once existed as Father, then as the Man, Jesus, and
now
> is manifest as the Holy Spirit is a teaching the church rejected early on
in
> its history as heresy.
> Of course you can find people in the history of the early church who
> believed this teaching, called modalism, but that doesn't mean it was the
> predominant teaching of the church.
> Nor as the church coming up with its own concoction.   This teaching of
the
> Trinity arose out of a very careful study of Scripture and has stood the
> test of time.
>
> I found the following website that contains a helpful examination of the
> biblical evidence.
> Blessings,
> Tom
> http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a63.htm
>
>
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