[Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons

Fri Jun 3 19:21:30 UTC 2011

Rex,
  Remind me never to get in a debate with you.  *grin*

On 6/3/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
> I think this is an interesting debate and it is interesting the different
> positions that people take on this issue.
>
> Normally, I do not get caught up in debate over Christian theology but I did
> want to provide some information on this discussion.
>
> I believe that in order to understand submission and subordination (we
> submit to one another, we submit to the church, the church submits to God)
> then we should try to understand the principle of the trinity.
>
> I believe firmly that there is one God represented in three.
>
> I listened to the video on YouTube but I cannot buy into that teaching.
>
> Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let
> them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and
> over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that
> creeps on the earth."
>
>
>
> a. Let Us make man in Our image: The use of the plural (Let Us . . . in Our
> image, according to Our likeness) is consistent with the idea that there is
> One God in three Persons, what we know as the Trinity.
>
>
>
> i. Leupold does a good job showing that the plurality of let Us make cannot
> be merely the plurality of royalty, nor can it be God speaking with and to
> the angels. It is an indicator of the Trinity, though not clearly spelled
> out.
>
>
>
>
> http://enduringword.com/commentaries/0101.htm
> Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
>
> Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity
> is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The
> Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully
> understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are;
> therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The
> Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy
> Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we
> can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of
> the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human
> mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not
> based on the teachings of the Bible.
>
> The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is
> not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this
> subject that the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. This is a term
> that is used to attempt to describe the triune God-three coexistent,
> co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept
> represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. The following is
> what God's Word says about the Trinity:
>
> 1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1
> Timothy 2:5).
>
> 2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7;
> Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In
> Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22,
> 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. The word "Elohim"
> and the pronoun "us" are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew
> language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the
> Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for
> "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.
>
> In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the
> Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that
> it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus'
> baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the
> Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19
> and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the
> Trinity.
>
> 3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various
> passages. In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis
> 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The
> Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God"
> (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm
> 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father
> about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that
> Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider
> also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father.
> Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the
> Trinity-the Father.
>
> 4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans
> 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9;
> Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians
> 3:16).
>
> 5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy
> Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate
> to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity
> of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds
> cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke
> 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit
> see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
>
> 6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is
> the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation
> 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and
> Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these
> things.
>
> The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the
> creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3;
> Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27;
> Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John
> 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as
> His agent.
>
> The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works:
> creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm
> 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21);
> salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1;
> Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy
> Spirit.
>
> There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity.
> However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg
> (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg,
> not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple
> are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are
> not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat
> better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid,
> vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not
> forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us
> a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite
> God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
>
> The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire
> history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are
> clearly presented in God's Word, some of the side issues are not as
> explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is
> God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.
> Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and
> non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our
> finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of
> God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. "Oh, the depth of the
> riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments,
> and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who
> has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34).
>
> Recommended Resource: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions
> by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.
> http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Tom Vos
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 1:41 PM
> To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons
>
> I realize that this list includes people from many faith traditions, but I
> wish to make clear that the Christian Church has been overwhelmingly united
> in affirming the Trinity.
>
> The idea that Jesus once existed as Father, then as the Man, Jesus, and now
> is manifest as the Holy Spirit is a teaching the church rejected early on in
> its history as heresy.
> Of course you can find people in the history of the early church who
> believed this teaching, called modalism, but that doesn't mean it was the
> predominant teaching of the church.
> Nor as the church coming up with its own concoction.   This teaching of the
> Trinity arose out of a very careful study of Scripture and has stood the
> test of time.
>
> I found the following website that contains a helpful examination of the
> biblical evidence.
> Blessings,
> Tom
> http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a63.htm
>
>
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