[Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons

Sat Jun 4 03:55:25 UTC 2011

We use the plural all the time!
Have you ever heard a king say, "We will do," (such and such?)
Who's, "we?"
Does he have a mouse in his pocket?
There's only one person talking.
We use it too.
"Let's see here."
That "let's, (let us,) is spoken in plural form, although it's one
person saying it.
This is called "royal plural."
Most theologians agreed with that.
The apostles taught the oneness of God, in Ephesians 4.
Paul also proves it in Colossians, 1:19, Hebrews,1:1/4.
John, 3:13 is a good eye opener to those that don't believe in the
oneness of God.
You need to understand the dual nature of Christ.
Jesus was the father in creation, because God is a spirit, (John 4:24.)
When Jesus was in the flesh, the spirit, (father,) dwelt in him.
No wonder it said in Colossians, 2:9, that in him, (Jesus,) dwelt all
the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
The apostles taught that.
Also, 1 Timothy 3:16 explains this.
Back to the dual nature.
As man he prayed, but as God, he answered prayer.
As man he was hungry, but as God he fed the 5000.
As man he was tired, but as God he never sleeps nor slumbers.
As man he died, but as God, he rose again.
The doctrine of the trinity was totally formulized in 325 AD at the
Nicean council.
The doctrine wasn't taught by the apostles.
The church fathers of the Roman Catholic Church invented it.
Did you not read Lee stoneking's Church history?
Read your Bible, and get rid of your traditions.
Let the scriptures interpret themselves.
Blessings, joshua

On 6/3/11, Rex Leslie Howard, Jr. <rex at littlelaw.com> wrote:
> I think this is an interesting debate and it is interesting the different
> positions that people take on this issue.
>
> Normally, I do not get caught up in debate over Christian theology but I did
> want to provide some information on this discussion.
>
> I believe that in order to understand submission and subordination (we
> submit to one another, we submit to the church, the church submits to God)
> then we should try to understand the principle of the trinity.
>
> I believe firmly that there is one God represented in three.
>
> I listened to the video on YouTube but I cannot buy into that teaching.
>
> Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let
> them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and
> over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that
> creeps on the earth."
>
>
>
> a. Let Us make man in Our image: The use of the plural (Let Us . . . in Our
> image, according to Our likeness) is consistent with the idea that there is
> One God in three Persons, what we know as the Trinity.
>
>
>
> i. Leupold does a good job showing that the plurality of let Us make cannot
> be merely the plurality of royalty, nor can it be God speaking with and to
> the angels. It is an indicator of the Trinity, though not clearly spelled
> out.
>
>
>
>
> http://enduringword.com/commentaries/0101.htm
> Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
>
> Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity
> is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The
> Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully
> understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are;
> therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The
> Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy
> Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we
> can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of
> the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human
> mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not
> based on the teachings of the Bible.
>
> The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is
> not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this
> subject that the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. This is a term
> that is used to attempt to describe the triune God-three coexistent,
> co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept
> represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. The following is
> what God's Word says about the Trinity:
>
> 1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1
> Timothy 2:5).
>
> 2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7;
> Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In
> Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22,
> 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. The word "Elohim"
> and the pronoun "us" are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew
> language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the
> Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for
> "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.
>
> In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the
> Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that
> it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus'
> baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the
> Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19
> and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the
> Trinity.
>
> 3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various
> passages. In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis
> 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The
> Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God"
> (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm
> 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father
> about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that
> Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider
> also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father.
> Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the
> Trinity-the Father.
>
> 4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans
> 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9;
> Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians
> 3:16).
>
> 5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy
> Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate
> to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity
> of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds
> cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke
> 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit
> see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
>
> 6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is
> the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation
> 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and
> Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these
> things.
>
> The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the
> creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3;
> Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27;
> Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John
> 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as
> His agent.
>
> The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works:
> creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm
> 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21);
> salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1;
> Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy
> Spirit.
>
> There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity.
> However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg
> (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg,
> not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple
> are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are
> not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat
> better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid,
> vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not
> forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us
> a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite
> God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
>
> The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire
> history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are
> clearly presented in God's Word, some of the side issues are not as
> explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is
> God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.
> Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and
> non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our
> finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of
> God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. "Oh, the depth of the
> riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments,
> and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who
> has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34).
>
> Recommended Resource: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions
> by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.
> http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Tom Vos
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 1:41 PM
> To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons
>
> I realize that this list includes people from many faith traditions, but I
> wish to make clear that the Christian Church has been overwhelmingly united
> in affirming the Trinity.
>
> The idea that Jesus once existed as Father, then as the Man, Jesus, and now
> is manifest as the Holy Spirit is a teaching the church rejected early on in
> its history as heresy.
> Of course you can find people in the history of the early church who
> believed this teaching, called modalism, but that doesn't mean it was the
> predominant teaching of the church.
> Nor as the church coming up with its own concoction.   This teaching of the
> Trinity arose out of a very careful study of Scripture and has stood the
> test of time.
>
> I found the following website that contains a helpful examination of the
> biblical evidence.
> Blessings,
> Tom
> http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a63.htm
>
>
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