[Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons

Sat Jun 4 20:54:45 UTC 2011

Hi Rex,

Well said! Thanks for taking the time to type and send this.

Blessings,

Linda

At 02:15 PM 6/3/2011, you wrote:
>I think this is an interesting debate and it is interesting the different
>positions that people take on this issue.
>
>Normally, I do not get caught up in debate over Christian theology but I did
>want to provide some information on this discussion.
>
>I believe that in order to understand submission and subordination (we
>submit to one another, we submit to the church, the church submits to God)
>then we should try to understand the principle of the trinity.
>
>I believe firmly that there is one God represented in three.
>
>I listened to the video on YouTube but I cannot buy into that teaching.
>
>Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let
>them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and
>over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that
>creeps on the earth."
>
>
>
>a. Let Us make man in Our image: The use of the plural (Let Us . . . in Our
>image, according to Our likeness) is consistent with the idea that there is
>One God in three Persons, what we know as the Trinity.
>
>
>
>i. Leupold does a good job showing that the plurality of let Us make cannot
>be merely the plurality of royalty, nor can it be God speaking with and to
>the angels. It is an indicator of the Trinity, though not clearly spelled
>out.
>
>
>
>
>http://enduringword.com/commentaries/0101.htm
>Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
>
>Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity
>is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The
>Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully
>understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are;
>therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The
>Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy
>Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we
>can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of
>the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human
>mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not
>based on the teachings of the Bible.
>
>The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is
>not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this
>subject that the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. This is a term
>that is used to attempt to describe the triune God-three coexistent,
>co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept
>represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. The following is
>what God's Word says about the Trinity:
>
>1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1
>Timothy 2:5).
>
>2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7;
>Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In
>Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22,
>11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. The word "Elohim"
>and the pronoun "us" are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew
>language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the
>Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for
>"God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.
>
>In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the
>Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that
>it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus'
>baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the
>Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19
>and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the
>Trinity.
>
>3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various
>passages. In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord" (Genesis
>19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The
>Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God"
>(Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm
>45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father
>about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that
>Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider
>also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father.
>Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the
>Trinity-the Father.
>
>4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans
>1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9;
>Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians
>3:16).
>
>5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy
>Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate
>to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity
>of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds
>cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke
>22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit
>see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
>
>6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is
>the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation
>4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and
>Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these
>things.
>
>The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the
>creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3;
>Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27;
>Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John
>4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as
>His agent.
>
>The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works:
>creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm
>104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21);
>salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1;
>Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy
>Spirit.
>
>There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity.
>However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg
>(or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg,
>not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple
>are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are
>not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat
>better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid,
>vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not
>forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us
>a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite
>God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
>
>The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire
>history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are
>clearly presented in God's Word, some of the side issues are not as
>explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is
>God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.
>Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and
>non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our
>finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of
>God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. "Oh, the depth of the
>riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments,
>and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who
>has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34).
>
>Recommended Resource: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions
>by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.
>http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>On Behalf Of Tom Vos
>Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 1:41 PM
>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons
>
>I realize that this list includes people from many faith traditions, but I
>wish to make clear that the Christian Church has been overwhelmingly united
>in affirming the Trinity.
>
>The idea that Jesus once existed as Father, then as the Man, Jesus, and now
>is manifest as the Holy Spirit is a teaching the church rejected early on in
>its history as heresy.
>Of course you can find people in the history of the early church who
>believed this teaching, called modalism, but that doesn't mean it was the
>predominant teaching of the church.
>Nor as the church coming up with its own concoction.   This teaching of the
>Trinity arose out of a very careful study of Scripture and has stood the
>test of time.
>
>I found the following website that contains a helpful examination of the
>biblical evidence.
>Blessings,
>Tom
>http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a63.htm
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/rex%40littlelaw.
>com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Faith-talk mailing list
>Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>for Faith-talk:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/mentink%40frontiernet.net