[Faith-talk] more truth

Sun Jun 5 06:13:06 UTC 2011

Nicki,
  I totally respect where you're coming from here.  We've all seen how
contention and arguing can divide us.  But I think we really need to
talk, and I think John just gave us a fine example of how it should be
done.  Here's how I see it.  If we don't honestly get to know each
other, how can we really get along?  If we don't seek to understand
our differences, as well as our more numerous similarities, how can we
really love each other?  It's honestly been my experience that, the
more you openly share your feelings and faith, especially with people
who don't totally agree, the more respect you gain for those around
you.  It's perfectly ok to talk about disagreements-I think it's fair
to say most problems in the world come from people deciding *not* to
talk.  I honestly think the more we have a sincere and open dialogue
(not an argument), the more people on all sides are built up and I'll
even say sanctified.  It's a beautiful thing, I've seen it and been a
part of it!  When people are willing to listen more than talk, and
willing to stop trying to prove they're right and start working
together with people from all faith traditions to make the world a
brighter place for their children...it's honestly the most inspiring
thing I've ever seen.  So I say, to all who want to come together and
learn and grow...keep talking!  Keep listening!  We may disagree, but
we honestly can make our dialogue a powerful force for good when we
stop procelyting, start listening, and open our minds and hearts to
each other.  Is Joshua's oneness belief respectable?  Absolutely!  Is
the Trinitarian belief shared by most Christians respectable?  Most
definitely!  Is the Mormon belief in three distinct persons who make
up the godhead respectable?  You bet!  And, just because we disagree
on points of doctrine, which we need to explore and analyze with love
and respect in order to really understand each other, that doesn't
mean we can't join hands and work for a better future for all of us
and all of our children.  If we don't, if we refuse to talk, our
future is bleak indeed!
  Sorry.  I didn't mean to ramble.  I obviously feel strongly about
this, and I also totally understand why argument is, quite frankly, of
the devil.  In closing, I'd like to share a song by one of my favorite
artists (who happens to be a Muslim), that says what I just tried to
say better than I can say it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OvbWGgdiEU
  Your friend,
Kirt

On 6/4/11, Nikki <daizies304 at comcast.net> wrote:
>     John,
> By saying all that, you are asking for an argument to start.
> That's just what I see happening.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John J. Boyer
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:33 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>
> Kirt,
>
> That is the spirit of interreligious dialog.
>
> Now, to state my own beliefs. The correct interpretation of the Bible
> and of the teachings of the early Church that didn't make it into the
> New Testament is likely to be the interpretation of the Church Fathers.
> They were much closer to the culture of the Bible than we are, and they
> had resources that we don't.
>
> I believe that the Catholic Church is the one Christian group that has
> adhered most closely to the teaching of the Church Fathers. There has
> never been a Great Apostasy in which the whole Church abandoned the
> teachings. Therefore there cannot be a Restoration. Likewise, there was
> never a Reformation. However, the Church did learn from the latter to
> clean up its own house.
>
> This is not intended as a polemic. It is a rather novice attempt at
> interreligious dialog.
>
> Peace, Love, Service,
> John
>
> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 09:15:32PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>> John,
>>   Here, here!  But that doesn't mean we don't talk and learn from each
>> other and have a constructive discussion.  I think it's ok to have a
>> civilized debate so long as it doesn't turn into an argument...am I
>> making any sense?  It's like saying "I respect you enough to tell you
>> I disagree with you on this issue, but look at all this common ground
>> we share!"  In other words, disagree agreeably.
>>   Blessings,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/4/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>> > Argument is out of place in discussion of religion. The objective should
>> > be to build tolerance, trust and understanding. There is a saying "Argue
>> > with no true believer." That is amply illistrated by some of the
>> > messages in this thread.
>> >
>> > Peace, Love, Service,
>> > John
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 08:51:47PM -0500, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>> >> Once upon a time this started out as a nice discussion comparing
>> >> different
>> >> beliefs and asking others about why they believed what they did.
>> >> Now, it seems to me, this conversation is turning into an argument that
>> >> someone must win about whose beliefs are correct.
>> >> Let???s please just take this back to a question/answer thing instead
>> >> of
>> >> trying to convert.  Whether you believe in the Trinity or that the
>> >> three
>> >> are one is a silly point to argue over as long as we all know that one
>> >> must accept Christ as Lord and Savior and that one must repent and ask
>> >> to
>> >> be forgiven in order to be called a child of God.
>> >> This debate is almost as silly as whether one is a mid-tribulation,
>> >> pre-tribulation or post-tribulation subscriber.
>> >> If you???ve asked to be forgiven, and accepted Christ as Lord and
>> >> Savior
>> >> of your life, the rest of these debates is just the devil trying to
>> >> separate us.  And a house divided against itself cannot stand.
>> >> Barbara
>> >>
>> >> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall
>> >> pay
>> >> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
>> >> oppose
>> >> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
>> >> liberty.--John
>> >> F. Kennedy
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>> > --
>> > John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>> > GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>> > http://www.godtouches.org
>> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> > Peace, Love, Service
>> >
>> >
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> --
> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> http://www.godtouches.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Peace, Love, Service
>
>
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