[Faith-talk] more truth

Sun Jun 5 06:52:40 UTC 2011

I meant Modellist, not monolatriist...grrrr I'm tired.  *grin*

On 6/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua,
>   Ok, but the way we procelyte makes all the difference in the world.
> If we go in to it saying "I am right!  I am right and you're wrong
> because your doctrine is false!", we're not really going to win anyone
> over, are we?  I think a better way to do it, if you're going to
> procelyte, is to say "I see all the good you have now.  Come talk to
> me and we can add to it."  And, just because you don't "win everyone
> over" doesn't mean you can't work with those people who don't accept
> your doctrine to improve the world.  Some of my richest friendships
> are with those who disagree with my particular understanding of
> scripture.
>   And, Joshua, you're right.  I don't like it either when people call
> me "non-Christian", condemn me to hell, say I'm part of a "Satanic
> cult because I don't believe in the trinity, the list goes on and on
> forever what people can say.  I daresay we've probably had some of the
> same insults thrown at us...cult!  Hericy!  Apostate!  Non-Christian!
> Pagan!  (or, in your case, probably "monolatraist!"  It's not fair,
> it's not right, it hurts.  But Christ says love your enemies, turn the
> other cheak, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
> I'd certainly hope people of all faiths would treat me with the love
> and respect and dignity I feel my religion deserves, I'm sure you feel
> the same, so shouldn't we treat all others the same way we'd hope they
> would treat us?
>   Warmly,
> Kirt
>
> On 6/5/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>> I stated my beliefs. Interreligious doalog does not mean concealing
>> one's own beloiefs but respecting and trying to understand the beliefs
>> of others.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:05:02AM -0500, Nikki wrote:
>>>    John,
>>> By saying all that, you are asking for an argument to start.
>>> That's just what I see happening.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John J. Boyer
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:33 PM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>>>
>>> Kirt,
>>>
>>> That is the spirit of interreligious dialog.
>>>
>>> Now, to state my own beliefs. The correct interpretation of the Bible
>>> and of the teachings of the early Church that didn't make it into the
>>> New Testament is likely to be the interpretation of the Church Fathers.
>>> They were much closer to the culture of the Bible than we are, and they
>>> had resources that we don't.
>>>
>>> I believe that the Catholic Church is the one Christian group that has
>>> adhered most closely to the teaching of the Church Fathers. There has
>>> never been a Great Apostasy in which the whole Church abandoned the
>>> teachings. Therefore there cannot be a Restoration. Likewise, there was
>>> never a Reformation. However, the Church did learn from the latter to
>>> clean up its own house.
>>>
>>> This is not intended as a polemic. It is a rather novice attempt at
>>> interreligious dialog.
>>>
>>> Peace, Love, Service,
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 09:15:32PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>> >John,
>>> >  Here, here!  But that doesn't mean we don't talk and learn from each
>>> >other and have a constructive discussion.  I think it's ok to have a
>>> >civilized debate so long as it doesn't turn into an argument...am I
>>> >making any sense?  It's like saying "I respect you enough to tell you
>>> >I disagree with you on this issue, but look at all this common ground
>>> >we share!"  In other words, disagree agreeably.
>>> >  Blessings,
>>> >Kirt
>>> >
>>> >On 6/4/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>> >> Argument is out of place in discussion of religion. The objective
>>> >> should
>>> >> be to build tolerance, trust and understanding. There is a saying
>>> >> "Argue
>>> >> with no true believer." That is amply illistrated by some of the
>>> >> messages in this thread.
>>> >>
>>> >> Peace, Love, Service,
>>> >> John
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 08:51:47PM -0500, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>> >>> Once upon a time this started out as a nice discussion comparing
>>> >>> different
>>> >>> beliefs and asking others about why they believed what they did.
>>> >>> Now, it seems to me, this conversation is turning into an argument
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> someone must win about whose beliefs are correct.
>>> >>> Let???s please just take this back to a question/answer thing
>>> >>> instead
>>> >>> of
>>> >>> trying to convert.  Whether you believe in the Trinity or that the
>>> >>> three
>>> >>> are one is a silly point to argue over as long as we all know that
>>> >>> one
>>> >>> must accept Christ as Lord and Savior and that one must repent and
>>> >>> ask
>>> >>>
>>> >>> to
>>> >>> be forgiven in order to be called a child of God.
>>> >>> This debate is almost as silly as whether one is a mid-tribulation,
>>> >>> pre-tribulation or post-tribulation subscriber.
>>> >>> If you???ve asked to be forgiven, and accepted Christ as Lord and
>>> >>> Savior
>>> >>> of your life, the rest of these debates is just the devil trying to
>>> >>> separate us.  And a house divided against itself cannot stand.
>>> >>> Barbara
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we
>>> >>> shall
>>> >>> pay
>>> >>> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
>>> >>> oppose
>>> >>> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
>>> >>> liberty.--John
>>> >>> F. Kennedy
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>> >> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>> >> http://www.godtouches.org
>>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> >> Peace, Love, Service
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> >>
>>> >
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>>> --
>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>> http://www.godtouches.org
>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>> Peace, Love, Service
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
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>>
>