[Faith-talk] more truth

Sun Jun 5 06:55:16 UTC 2011

Or...I think the right way of spelling it is Modalist.  Isn't that right?

On 6/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
> I meant Modellist, not monolatriist...grrrr I'm tired.  *grin*
>
> On 6/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>>   Ok, but the way we procelyte makes all the difference in the world.
>> If we go in to it saying "I am right!  I am right and you're wrong
>> because your doctrine is false!", we're not really going to win anyone
>> over, are we?  I think a better way to do it, if you're going to
>> procelyte, is to say "I see all the good you have now.  Come talk to
>> me and we can add to it."  And, just because you don't "win everyone
>> over" doesn't mean you can't work with those people who don't accept
>> your doctrine to improve the world.  Some of my richest friendships
>> are with those who disagree with my particular understanding of
>> scripture.
>>   And, Joshua, you're right.  I don't like it either when people call
>> me "non-Christian", condemn me to hell, say I'm part of a "Satanic
>> cult because I don't believe in the trinity, the list goes on and on
>> forever what people can say.  I daresay we've probably had some of the
>> same insults thrown at us...cult!  Hericy!  Apostate!  Non-Christian!
>> Pagan!  (or, in your case, probably "monolatraist!"  It's not fair,
>> it's not right, it hurts.  But Christ says love your enemies, turn the
>> other cheak, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
>> I'd certainly hope people of all faiths would treat me with the love
>> and respect and dignity I feel my religion deserves, I'm sure you feel
>> the same, so shouldn't we treat all others the same way we'd hope they
>> would treat us?
>>   Warmly,
>> Kirt
>>
>> On 6/5/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>> I stated my beliefs. Interreligious doalog does not mean concealing
>>> one's own beloiefs but respecting and trying to understand the beliefs
>>> of others.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 12:05:02AM -0500, Nikki wrote:
>>>>    John,
>>>> By saying all that, you are asking for an argument to start.
>>>> That's just what I see happening.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John J. Boyer
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:33 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>>>>
>>>> Kirt,
>>>>
>>>> That is the spirit of interreligious dialog.
>>>>
>>>> Now, to state my own beliefs. The correct interpretation of the Bible
>>>> and of the teachings of the early Church that didn't make it into the
>>>> New Testament is likely to be the interpretation of the Church Fathers.
>>>> They were much closer to the culture of the Bible than we are, and they
>>>> had resources that we don't.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the Catholic Church is the one Christian group that has
>>>> adhered most closely to the teaching of the Church Fathers. There has
>>>> never been a Great Apostasy in which the whole Church abandoned the
>>>> teachings. Therefore there cannot be a Restoration. Likewise, there was
>>>> never a Reformation. However, the Church did learn from the latter to
>>>> clean up its own house.
>>>>
>>>> This is not intended as a polemic. It is a rather novice attempt at
>>>> interreligious dialog.
>>>>
>>>> Peace, Love, Service,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 09:15:32PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>> >John,
>>>> >  Here, here!  But that doesn't mean we don't talk and learn from each
>>>> >other and have a constructive discussion.  I think it's ok to have a
>>>> >civilized debate so long as it doesn't turn into an argument...am I
>>>> >making any sense?  It's like saying "I respect you enough to tell you
>>>> >I disagree with you on this issue, but look at all this common ground
>>>> >we share!"  In other words, disagree agreeably.
>>>> >  Blessings,
>>>> >Kirt
>>>> >
>>>> >On 6/4/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>> >> Argument is out of place in discussion of religion. The objective
>>>> >> should
>>>> >> be to build tolerance, trust and understanding. There is a saying
>>>> >> "Argue
>>>> >> with no true believer." That is amply illistrated by some of the
>>>> >> messages in this thread.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Peace, Love, Service,
>>>> >> John
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 08:51:47PM -0500, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>>> >>> Once upon a time this started out as a nice discussion comparing
>>>> >>> different
>>>> >>> beliefs and asking others about why they believed what they did.
>>>> >>> Now, it seems to me, this conversation is turning into an argument
>>>> >>> that
>>>> >>> someone must win about whose beliefs are correct.
>>>> >>> Let???s please just take this back to a question/answer thing
>>>> >>> instead
>>>> >>> of
>>>> >>> trying to convert.  Whether you believe in the Trinity or that the
>>>> >>> three
>>>> >>> are one is a silly point to argue over as long as we all know that
>>>> >>> one
>>>> >>> must accept Christ as Lord and Savior and that one must repent and
>>>> >>> ask
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> to
>>>> >>> be forgiven in order to be called a child of God.
>>>> >>> This debate is almost as silly as whether one is a mid-tribulation,
>>>> >>> pre-tribulation or post-tribulation subscriber.
>>>> >>> If you???ve asked to be forgiven, and accepted Christ as Lord and
>>>> >>> Savior
>>>> >>> of your life, the rest of these debates is just the devil trying to
>>>> >>> separate us.  And a house divided against itself cannot stand.
>>>> >>> Barbara
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we
>>>> >>> shall
>>>> >>> pay
>>>> >>> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
>>>> >>> oppose
>>>> >>> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
>>>> >>> liberty.--John
>>>> >>> F. Kennedy
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>> >> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>> >> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>> >> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>> >> Peace, Love, Service
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >>
>>>> >
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>>>> --
>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>