[Faith-talk] more truth

Sun Jun 5 16:57:37 UTC 2011

Sister Jeanette, I love the spirit, that you have.
I pray God's blessings on you.
Blessings, Joshua

On 6/5/11, Jeanette <nettiecosp at yahoo.com> wrote:
> i do not think anyone should tell another person their doctrine is wrong,
> your beliefs are between you and God, i may believe differently than you,
> but i will not judge you and expect you not to judge me, the best we can do
> is love each other and share our beliefs based on scripture.  no one here is
> arguing with God or debating God, just sharing their particular beliefs.
> jeanette
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 12:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>
>
>> Kirt, with all due respect, we as Christians must procilite.
>> The Bible says, that if we don't share the Gospel with people, and
>> they die, and go to Hell, their blood is on our hands.
>> We have to share this with them.
>> I'm trying to show you what was taught, by the original apostles, in 33
>> AD.
>> We need to go back to what the early church taught.
>> You'll never have what the apostles, had, if you don't do, teach, and
>> practice, what the apostles did.
>> Some people, we can never win, but that shouldn't keep us from trying.
>> I love everyone here, but I can't stand it, when people of other
>> faiths talk down to our faith.
>> I even had one person say that my doctrine, (which is actually as old
>> as God himself,) is heresy.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 6/5/11, Kirt Manwaring <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Nicki,
>>>   I totally respect where you're coming from here.  We've all seen how
>>> contention and arguing can divide us.  But I think we really need to
>>> talk, and I think John just gave us a fine example of how it should be
>>> done.  Here's how I see it.  If we don't honestly get to know each
>>> other, how can we really get along?  If we don't seek to understand
>>> our differences, as well as our more numerous similarities, how can we
>>> really love each other?  It's honestly been my experience that, the
>>> more you openly share your feelings and faith, especially with people
>>> who don't totally agree, the more respect you gain for those around
>>> you.  It's perfectly ok to talk about disagreements-I think it's fair
>>> to say most problems in the world come from people deciding *not* to
>>> talk.  I honestly think the more we have a sincere and open dialogue
>>> (not an argument), the more people on all sides are built up and I'll
>>> even say sanctified.  It's a beautiful thing, I've seen it and been a
>>> part of it!  When people are willing to listen more than talk, and
>>> willing to stop trying to prove they're right and start working
>>> together with people from all faith traditions to make the world a
>>> brighter place for their children...it's honestly the most inspiring
>>> thing I've ever seen.  So I say, to all who want to come together and
>>> learn and grow...keep talking!  Keep listening!  We may disagree, but
>>> we honestly can make our dialogue a powerful force for good when we
>>> stop procelyting, start listening, and open our minds and hearts to
>>> each other.  Is Joshua's oneness belief respectable?  Absolutely!  Is
>>> the Trinitarian belief shared by most Christians respectable?  Most
>>> definitely!  Is the Mormon belief in three distinct persons who make
>>> up the godhead respectable?  You bet!  And, just because we disagree
>>> on points of doctrine, which we need to explore and analyze with love
>>> and respect in order to really understand each other, that doesn't
>>> mean we can't join hands and work for a better future for all of us
>>> and all of our children.  If we don't, if we refuse to talk, our
>>> future is bleak indeed!
>>>   Sorry.  I didn't mean to ramble.  I obviously feel strongly about
>>> this, and I also totally understand why argument is, quite frankly, of
>>> the devil.  In closing, I'd like to share a song by one of my favorite
>>> artists (who happens to be a Muslim), that says what I just tried to
>>> say better than I can say it.
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OvbWGgdiEU
>>>   Your friend,
>>> Kirt
>>>
>>> On 6/4/11, Nikki <daizies304 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>     John,
>>>> By saying all that, you are asking for an argument to start.
>>>> That's just what I see happening.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: John J. Boyer
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 11:33 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] more truth
>>>>
>>>> Kirt,
>>>>
>>>> That is the spirit of interreligious dialog.
>>>>
>>>> Now, to state my own beliefs. The correct interpretation of the Bible
>>>> and of the teachings of the early Church that didn't make it into the
>>>> New Testament is likely to be the interpretation of the Church Fathers.
>>>> They were much closer to the culture of the Bible than we are, and they
>>>> had resources that we don't.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the Catholic Church is the one Christian group that has
>>>> adhered most closely to the teaching of the Church Fathers. There has
>>>> never been a Great Apostasy in which the whole Church abandoned the
>>>> teachings. Therefore there cannot be a Restoration. Likewise, there was
>>>> never a Reformation. However, the Church did learn from the latter to
>>>> clean up its own house.
>>>>
>>>> This is not intended as a polemic. It is a rather novice attempt at
>>>> interreligious dialog.
>>>>
>>>> Peace, Love, Service,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 09:15:32PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring wrote:
>>>>> John,
>>>>>   Here, here!  But that doesn't mean we don't talk and learn from each
>>>>> other and have a constructive discussion.  I think it's ok to have a
>>>>> civilized debate so long as it doesn't turn into an argument...am I
>>>>> making any sense?  It's like saying "I respect you enough to tell you
>>>>> I disagree with you on this issue, but look at all this common ground
>>>>> we share!"  In other words, disagree agreeably.
>>>>>   Blessings,
>>>>> Kirt
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/4/11, John J. Boyer <john at godtouches.org> wrote:
>>>>> > Argument is out of place in discussion of religion. The objective
>>>>> > should
>>>>> > be to build tolerance, trust and understanding. There is a saying
>>>>> > "Argue
>>>>> > with no true believer." That is amply illistrated by some of the
>>>>> > messages in this thread.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Peace, Love, Service,
>>>>> > John
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sat, Jun 04, 2011 at 08:51:47PM -0500, Barbara Hammel wrote:
>>>>> >> Once upon a time this started out as a nice discussion comparing
>>>>> >> different
>>>>> >> beliefs and asking others about why they believed what they did.
>>>>> >> Now, it seems to me, this conversation is turning into an argument
>>>>> >> that
>>>>> >> someone must win about whose beliefs are correct.
>>>>> >> Let???s please just take this back to a question/answer thing
>>>>> >> instead
>>>>> >> of
>>>>> >> trying to convert.  Whether you believe in the Trinity or that the
>>>>> >> three
>>>>> >> are one is a silly point to argue over as long as we all know that
>>>>> >> one
>>>>> >> must accept Christ as Lord and Savior and that one must repent and
>>>>> >> ask
>>>>> >> to
>>>>> >> be forgiven in order to be called a child of God.
>>>>> >> This debate is almost as silly as whether one is a mid-tribulation,
>>>>> >> pre-tribulation or post-tribulation subscriber.
>>>>> >> If you???ve asked to be forgiven, and accepted Christ as Lord and
>>>>> >> Savior
>>>>> >> of your life, the rest of these debates is just the devil trying to
>>>>> >> separate us.  And a house divided against itself cannot stand.
>>>>> >> Barbara
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Let every nation know whether it wishes us well or ill, that we
>>>>> >> shall
>>>>> >> pay
>>>>> >> any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend,
>>>>> >> oppose
>>>>> >> any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of
>>>>> >> liberty.--John
>>>>> >> F. Kennedy
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Faith-talk mailing list
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>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>>> > GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>>> > http://www.godtouches.org
>>>>> > Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>>> > Peace, Love, Service
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
>>>> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
>>>> http://www.godtouches.org
>>>> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
>>>> Peace, Love, Service
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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