[Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons

Sun Jun 5 17:51:56 UTC 2011

Amen!
Blessings, Joshua

On 6/5/11, Nikki <daizies304 at comcast.net> wrote:
>     Trinity is tradition.
> In my opinion, there is no such thing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 8:40 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons
>
> Rex.
> Jesus is the only visible image, of the invisible God.
> Read, Hebrews, 1:1/4.
> The trinity is nowhere to be found in scripture.
> This isn't a debate, I just want you to see this.
> The word "trinity," "three persons," etc is not found in scripture.
> The concept isn't even there.
> Jesus said to Phillip, in John, 14:9, "If you've seen me, you've seen
> the father."
> God is a spirit, that spirit took on flesh, and now that spirit dwells
> in us, as the Holy Ghost.
> Please check out, www.leestoneking.com, click on "The Oneness of God,"
> and then "The Mighty God In Christ."
> Also, go to "Church History."
> There, you'll find out where the doctrine of the trinity came from.
> Just read God's word, search the history, on the site I gave you, and
> let God do the rest.
> Another scripture, (for Tom Vos,) is First Timothy, 3:16.
> That's where I get "manifestations," from.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 6/4/11, Linda Mentink <mentink at frontiernet.net> wrote:
>> Hi Rex,
>>
>> Well said! Thanks for taking the time to type and send this.
>>
>> Blessings,
>>
>> Linda
>>
>> At 02:15 PM 6/3/2011, you wrote:
>>>I think this is an interesting debate and it is interesting the different
>>>positions that people take on this issue.
>>>
>>>Normally, I do not get caught up in debate over Christian theology but I
>>> did
>>>want to provide some information on this discussion.
>>>
>>>I believe that in order to understand submission and subordination (we
>>>submit to one another, we submit to the church, the church submits to God)
>>>then we should try to understand the principle of the trinity.
>>>
>>>I believe firmly that there is one God represented in three.
>>>
>>>I listened to the video on YouTube but I cannot buy into that teaching.
>>>
>>>Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
>>> let
>>>them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air,
>>>and
>>>over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that
>>>creeps on the earth."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>a. Let Us make man in Our image: The use of the plural (Let Us . . . in
>>>Our
>>>image, according to Our likeness) is consistent with the idea that there
>>>is
>>>One God in three Persons, what we know as the Trinity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>i. Leupold does a good job showing that the plurality of let Us make
>>>cannot
>>>be merely the plurality of royalty, nor can it be God speaking with and to
>>>the angels. It is an indicator of the Trinity, though not clearly spelled
>>>out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>http://enduringword.com/commentaries/0101.htm
>>>Question: "What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?"
>>>
>>>Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the
>>>Trinity
>>>is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The
>>>Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully
>>>understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are;
>>>therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The
>>>Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy
>>>Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though
>>>we
>>>can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons
>>> of
>>>the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the
>>>human
>>>mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is
>>>not
>>>based on the teachings of the Bible.
>>>
>>>The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is
>>>not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this
>>>subject that the word "Trinity" is not found in Scripture. This is a term
>>>that is used to attempt to describe the triune God-three coexistent,
>>>co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept
>>>represented by the word "Trinity" does exist in Scripture. The following
>>>is
>>>what God's Word says about the Trinity:
>>>
>>>1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1
>>>Timothy 2:5).
>>>
>>>2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7;
>>>Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In
>>>Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26,
>>> 3:22,
>>>11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for "us" is used. The word
>>>"Elohim"
>>>and the pronoun "us" are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew
>>>language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the
>>>Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word
>>>for
>>>"God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.
>>>
>>>In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to
>>>the
>>>Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see
>>>that
>>>it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus'
>>>baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the
>>>Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19
>>>and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the
>>>Trinity.
>>>
>>>3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in
>>>various
>>>passages. In the Old Testament, "LORD" is distinguished from "Lord"
>>> (Genesis
>>>19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4).
>>>The
>>>Spirit is distinguished from the "LORD" (Numbers 27:18) and from "God"
>>>(Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm
>>>45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father
>>>about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that
>>>Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit.
>>> Consider
>>>also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father.
>>>Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the
>>>Trinity-the Father.
>>>
>>>4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans
>>>1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians
>>> 2:9;
>>>Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1
>>> Corinthians
>>>3:16).
>>>
>>>5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the
>>>Holy
>>>Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is
>>>subordinate
>>>to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the
>>>deity
>>>of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite
>>>minds
>>>cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke
>>>22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit
>>>see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
>>>
>>>6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father
>>> is
>>>the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6;
>>>Revelation
>>>4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and
>>>Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these
>>>things.
>>>
>>>The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the
>>>creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3;
>>>Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27;
>>>Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John
>>>4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as
>>>His agent.
>>>
>>>The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works:
>>>creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm
>>>104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21);
>>>salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah
>>> 61:1;
>>>Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the
>>> Holy
>>>Spirit.
>>>
>>>There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity.
>>>However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The
>>>egg
>>>(or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg,
>>>not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple
>>>are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
>>>are
>>>not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat
>>>better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid,
>>>vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are
>>>not
>>>forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give
>>> us
>>>a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An
>>>infinite
>>>God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
>>>
>>>The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the
>>>entire
>>>history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are
>>>clearly presented in God's Word, some of the side issues are not as
>>>explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit
>>>is
>>>God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the
>>> Trinity.
>>>Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and
>>>non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our
>>>finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of
>>>God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. "Oh, the depth of the
>>>riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments,
>>>and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or
>>> who
>>>has been his counselor?" (Romans 11:33-34).
>>>
>>>Recommended Resource: Making Sense of the Trinity: Three Crucial Questions
>>>by Millard Erickson and The Forgotten Trinity by James White.
>>>http://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>On Behalf Of Tom Vos
>>>Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 1:41 PM
>>>To: faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>Subject: [Faith-talk] One God, Three Persons
>>>
>>>I realize that this list includes people from many faith traditions, but I
>>>wish to make clear that the Christian Church has been overwhelmingly
>>>united
>>>in affirming the Trinity.
>>>
>>>The idea that Jesus once existed as Father, then as the Man, Jesus, and
>>>now
>>>is manifest as the Holy Spirit is a teaching the church rejected early on
>>> in
>>>its history as heresy.
>>>Of course you can find people in the history of the early church who
>>>believed this teaching, called modalism, but that doesn't mean it was the
>>>predominant teaching of the church.
>>>Nor as the church coming up with its own concoction.   This teaching of
>>>the
>>>Trinity arose out of a very careful study of Scripture and has stood the
>>>test of time.
>>>
>>>I found the following website that contains a helpful examination of the
>>>biblical evidence.
>>>Blessings,
>>>Tom
>>>http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a63.htm
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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