[Faith-talk] weekly bible study - the difference between understanding the bible, and arrogance

[Kirt Manwaring]

To all,
  I guess I'll throw my two cents worth in here.  Even though I pretty
much agree with the jist of what you both have said so far- we can't
save ourselves, only through Christ are we sanctified, and that
doesn't mean we just believe he'll save us and do nothing.  Works
without faith don't save us.  But I think it's also important to
remember, as James said, that faith without works is dead.  And the
savior said in the book of John, "if ye love me, keep my
commandments."  And repentence, in my opinion, involves a complete
surrendering of our will to God...or at a more complete surrender than
we're now granting.  I truly believe he covers the many gaps in our
attempts to emulate him.  But it's important that we don't rely on
faith alone to sanctify us.  Because, as the Lord says in Matthew when
asked what manner of people we ought to be, "even as I am."  And
although we will not be that kind of perfect in this life, it's
important to remember that's the standard he's set and, eventually
with his atoning grace, we'll reach it if we give him all we have
(which takes a lot of effort), and let him remake us in his image.
Just a thought.
  Best,
Kirt

On 3/26/11, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> The problem with most "Christians," is that they've never changed
> natures. The sin, (carnal,) nature dies when you repent. You've got to
> get that carnal nature buried. How do you bury it? It's in water
> baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, (see, Acts, 2:38.) I hate Bill
> Gaither's song, "I'm Just A Sinner, Saved by Grace." Either you're a
> sinner, or you're saved by grace. You cannot be both. In James, 1-7,
> (I believe it is,) it says "A double minded man is unstable in all of
> his ways." I'm no longer a sinner, I'm a child of God! I'm the
> righteousness of God in Christ. My sin nature may stick it's ugly head
> up, but it's my job to kkeep that flesh crucified. It's dead, I'm not
> going to resurrect it. I'm dead to sin, and Christ lives in me. When
> you kill that carnal nature at repentance, and bury it in baptism,
> you've got to walk in the resurrection of Christ. That's the infilling
> with the Holy Ghost in Acts, 2:4. If you don't have the experience of
> receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I'd recommend it. Some
> churches have it, but you need an Apostolic church that will teach and
> practice the whole Acts, 2, experience. That's how to be saved. And
> since Melody brought up Leviticus, the Bible says that the law was
> given as a schoolmaster. Jesus didn't do away with the law, he
> fulfilled it. The sacrificial law was done away with, but the moral
> laws weren't The apostle Paul tells women, (for example,) in 1
> Corinthians, 11, not to cut their hair. In the Greek, in verse 15, the
> word "long," means uncut. Women cutting their hair goes against
> scripture. That's not legalism, that's Bible. There are some things we
> have to do, that's a part of keeping that carnal nature under
> subjection like Paul was talking about.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/26/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Precisely.
>>
>> That's what I'm saying,
>> on the one hand its not a license for going back to the same junk,
>> and on the other it admits that we are not saints.
>>
>> That was exactly my point, though you said it better then I.
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2011, at 11:58 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>
>>> Jorge, the Bible says in 1, John 4, that "he that commiteth sins is of
>>> the devil." Notice, that the sinner commits sin. A sin is a willfull
>>> transgression against God. A saint, (on the other hand,) may stumble,
>>> but it isn't sin, unless they let it go unrepented of. For instance,
>>> when you get saved, it's not "O God I'm sorry," and go back to the
>>> same junk. You may slip up, but God will forgive you if you repent.
>>> You can't go on in the sin. Jesus said that the righteous fall 7
>>> times, but they rise up again. God's grace is not a license to sin,
>>> but power to overcome it. We can only overcome sin by the power of the
>>> Holy Spirit. See, acts, 1:8.
>>> The power isn't just to be witnesses, but it's power to overcome sin.
>>> Seriously, how can you be a good witness, if you haven't repented of
>>> your sins? That's one point about this verse. That's why we as
>>> Apostolic Pentecostals stress holy living. Just go to Youtube, type in
>>> Lee Stoneking, "Worldliness." His sermon on Worldliness is one that's
>>> worth listening to. He shows us scriptures on how to overcome sin, so
>>> all of us can learn not to be worldly.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/11, Jorge Paez <computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi guys:
>>>>
>>>> I thought I would start writing a weekly bible reflection for you,
>>>> and see what you all think.
>>>> Just to provide some more food for thought,
>>>> and my own input on what the bible says.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This week's verse:
>>>>
>>>> I am free from the law of sin and death (Romans 8:2)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is an interesting verse,
>>>> because it could be taken many different ways.
>>>> But this is how I take it.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't mean that we are perfect, it doesn't mean that we do not
>>>> commit
>>>> sins--just because it is written that way does not mean we are all the
>>>> sudden angels.
>>>>
>>>> No, what it means is this: we WILL commit sins, in some form or other,
>>>> but
>>>> this is the crucial part.
>>>>
>>>> We have to understand that we may sin, but as long as we have faith and
>>>> turn
>>>> to God in repentance he will accept us. This doesn't mean commit sins on
>>>> purpose--for that is the deed of an evil one, but to understand that we
>>>> are
>>>> merely humans.
>>>>
>>>> As a famous theologian put it,
>>>> the believer "commits small sins and imagines them as a mountain" while
>>>> the
>>>> hypocrites commit large sins and consider them like "flies they can just
>>>> swipe away."
>>>>
>>>> Who would commit more sins?
>>>>
>>>> Yet it is not our sins, but who we sin against that is important here,
>>>> and
>>>> we have to understand that as long as we are willing to admit that we
>>>> sin,
>>>> as long as we turn to God he will forgive us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And this may be the same conflict as when people tell you you're
>>>> wrong--knowing you're wrong, or made a mistake is the worse thing
>>>> because
>>>> its the hardest thing to accept sometimes,
>>>> yet its crucial for your wisdom to flourish.
>>>> Could you imagine how tiring it would be if we never committed a single
>>>> mistake? We'd never learn anything!!!
>>>>
>>>> So just remember, to always turn to God, and as long as we turn to him
>>>> who
>>>> created us in honest repentance we are forgiven as believers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Until next week,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jorge
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