[Faith-talk] Shape note singing

Mon Nov 28 17:22:39 UTC 2011

Joshua,
The Bible certainly references instruments.
I love singing with instruments and cannot imagine worship without it; 
without it is nice ocasionally though.

Also, you might know of a church who doesn't do a given practice. But all 
churches are different, even among denominations. So Debbie's church, Church 
of Christ may be noninstrumental, and the one you know may do something 
quite different.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:25 AM
To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Shape note singing

The Church of Christ, here in my community doesn't do it.
I'm a Pentecostal, so I disagree with most of the teachings in that
denomination.
I'm not trying to force my views, but I believe, that if instruments
are in heaven (se Revelation, where everyone has a golden harp,) that
we're to have instruments in the church.
The worship of the church, is to mirror, the worship in Heaven.
Blessings, Joshua

On 11/28/11, Debbie Brown <63characters at comcast.net> wrote:
> Shape note singing is still done in the nonistrumental Churches of Christ.
> Many of the older people know nothing else.  You can get computer programs
> that generate shape notes, but I forget the name of the one that some of 
> our
> song leaders used.
>
> the good thing about that kind of music is that singing is for everyone. 
> It
> is a command in the Bible to sing, and it is not meant for just a
> professional choir, but for everyone.  I find people mumbling along with 
> an
> organ not very inspiring.
>
> Debbie Brown
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to
> thePoston Claude Ely from Joshua
>
>
> Hi,
> I found out that shaped note singing came from the north and migrated down
> south and was more popular in southern churches. So when we think of 
> shaped
> note, we think of southern gospel and southern groups doing it; when I
> researched many groups came up in the south such as the Wiregrass Sacred
> Harp singers in Alabama.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:20 PM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to 
> thePost
> on Claude Ely from Joshua
>
> Most Sacred Harp singing is done in Shaped Note style.
> Southern Gospel was the only Shaped note style, but shaped notes have
> disappeared, lately.
> This style came into Southern Gospel, through the Church of God,
> (Cleveland, TN,) (a Pentecostal group.)
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 11/27/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Because of the strong influence on the Christian life of the South by the
>> Baptists, most probably it was that denomination, but not necessarily
>> Southern Baptists as there are quite a few faith communities that use the
>> name Baptist.  At least that's what I heard.  Paul
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to
>> thePost
>> on Claude Ely from Joshua
>>
>>
>> So Joshua, are you saying that some Quaker groups sang Sacred Harp music?
>> Also, is all Sacred Harp music in the shape note form? I thought I heard
>> Sacred harp that was not Sacred Harp sometime.
>> Maybe shaped notes can be part of Sacred Harp, but does not have to be.
>> What types of music has shaped note singing? I am not sure its around in
>> modern churches, except maybe some traditional southern churches. When I
>> studied music history, my dad did not know what shaped note music meant
>> and
>> he is from the south. We are white though; and perhaps it’s a black 
>> church
>> thing.
>> Since one part  is singing the scale of Doe, ray, me etc, its obvious 
>> when
>> one hears shaped note singing. The other people sing the words.
>>
>> Its my understanding that Sacred Harp singing is 1. With no instruments;
>> not
>> sure how to spell the word for that. 2. It uses the Sacred Harp Hymnal. 
>> 3.
>> The leader of the group is in the center. and 4. The singing sounds
>> country-like with a nazal-like voice.
>> It was common in southern churches, but I don't know what denomination.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:26 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>> Joshua
>>
>> The Quakers vary from group to group.
>> Our group was affiliated with the Central Yearly Meeting of Friends,
>> out of West Field, Indiana.
>> We used the same hymnal as the Church of the Nazarine.
>> We, in the United Pentecostal Church International use a hymnal
>> called, "Sing Unto the Lord," which is not, the Sacred Harp.
>> In the Appelachian Mountain area, they sang Sacred Harp, and Shaped
>> Note style music.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 11/26/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>> Am I correct that quakers song sacred harp music?
>>> Are you also saying that your church uses the Sacred Harp hymnal?
>>> I thought Pentecostals used their own hymnal. Perhaps, though its just
>>> your
>>> preference to  like
>>> older songs originating in other religious sects.
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:08 PM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>> Joshua
>>>
>>> We don't do Sacred Harp conventions, or "All Day Singing Schools,"
>>> anymore.
>>> Some of your Oneness Pentecostals, (like myself,) still sing the older
>>> songs, and use the hymnal.
>>> We have a diferent hymnal, than the other groups.
>>> Our hymns aren't the songs of the 17, and 1800's.
>>> Our hymns are Southern Gospel, from Dad Speer, Albert E Brumley, etc.
>>> This, and the Black Gospel choir music is what I'd prefer, for Sunday
>>> Morning worship service.
>>> The "711" songs have got to go!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 11/26/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Paul,
>>>> Thanks for telling us that the Loc issued religious  albums to the
>>>> public.
>>>> How many songs on this album?
>>>> I might see if I can get some. Unfortunately, the general public isn't
>>>> too
>>>> interested in old fashioned gospel, particularly with no instruments
>>>> backing
>>>> the singers, so you can't find these old styles of music at Christian
>>>> music
>>>> stores. Ever noticed that Christian music sold at stores is often a
>>>> group
>>>> of
>>>> singers with instruments; mostly c contemporary music. Its good music
>>>> IMO;
>>>>
>>>> I
>>>> like the Wow worship cds, but I like old fashioned music too.
>>>> This might explain why they did not convert Lps and cassettes to modern
>>>> day
>>>> Cds.
>>>>
>>>> I certainly heard of Sacred Harp singing; It is pretty.
>>>>
>>>> It would be neat to hear a hymn done by lining.
>>>> I've heard of that and think I first heard of that old technique in
>>>> music
>>>> class. It’s a technique, that to my knowledge, is not practiced in main
>>>> line
>>>> churches, and non denominational churches usually read lyrics from a
>>>> screen
>>>> rather than a hymnal.
>>>> Now I'm real curious about this record! I think lining would be a great
>>>> way
>>>> to include everyone, not just those who can read and follow a hymnal.
>>>> Its not just blind people that cannot read it, its others with learning
>>>> disabilities or those who cannot hold a book open and read fast enough
>>>> to
>>>> sing for various reasons. Lining was a practice for a long time. It was
>>>> used
>>>> because not everyone could read a hymnal or if the church did not have 
>>>> a
>>>> hymnal.
>>>> I've seen Sacred Harp singing on Youtube.
>>>> I wonder if southerners still sing and have sacred harp conventions?
>>>>
>>>> I'll make note of the other albums.
>>>>
>>>> Take care.
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Paul
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:50 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>> Joshua
>>>>
>>>> Well, I can't rightly tell you about everything on the LP, but here's a
>>>> sample.  There is an example of lining in which the song leader recites
>>>> the
>>>> first line of a hymn, in this case "Hosanna, Jesus Reigns," and then 
>>>> the
>>>> congregation sings it.  Then the song leader recites the second line 
>>>> and
>>>> then the congregation sings that also, and so on until the song is
>>>> finished.
>>>> This recording was originally made by Elder LaSeer (not sure of
>>>> spelling)
>>>> in
>>>> a Primitive Baptist Church somewhere in western North Carolina in 1961.
>>>> There is also another Primitive Baptist song entitled "The Lord Will
>>>> Provide," recorded by Elder Bradley in Lone Pine KY in 1971.  Judging 
>>>> by
>>>> the
>>>> acoustics it sounds like it might have been recorded in a tent or an
>>>> outdoor
>>>> venue.  Then there is a song sung by 12 bearded Old Order Amish people
>>>> from
>>>> Colona, Iowa near Cedar Rapids, originally recorded in 1943 by Alton S.
>>>> Bach
>>>> and Addison Bach.  That's just a sample.
>>>>
>>>> As to other religious albums (when the LOC issued them to the general
>>>> public), there is one entitled "Children of the Heavenly King: 
>>>> Religious
>>>> Expressions of the Central Blue Ridge," originally issued in 1981 and
>>>> featuring Primitive Baptist and other rural expressions of one's
>>>> Christianity in areas of southwestern Virginia and northwestern North
>>>> Carolina, encompassing the Virginia counties of Carrol, Grayson and
>>>> Floyd
>>>> and, in North Carolina, Ash and Wilts.  There is also an album of
>>>> Alabama
>>>> Sacred Harp Singing, which has nothing to do with the stringed
>>>> instrument
>>>> but is a unique style of a capella singing.  This was one of the early
>>>> collections of the late Alan Lomax, originally recorded in Birmingham 
>>>> in
>>>> August 1942 during the 37th Alabama Sacred Harp Singing Convention.
>>>> Ditto
>>>> for the song by Brother Claude Ely, although they used guitars and at
>>>> least
>>>> one mandolin.  For those of you who might be members of a chat 
>>>> community
>>>> called Out of Sight, have a working microphone and soundcard, would be
>>>> delighted to go into one of the audio chatrooms over there during the
>>>> day
>>>> when nothing is going on.  Just let me know in a reasonable amount of
>>>> time,
>>>> and would be more than glad to let you hear this admittedly unique and
>>>> little-known form of singing.  Your Christian brother, Paul
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:19 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>> Joshua
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Paul,
>>>>> I haven't heard of this album or singer.
>>>>> I didn't know the Library of congress issued religious music! I know
>>>>> they
>>>>> did folk tunes and some by the shakers and African American 
>>>>> spirituals,
>>>>> but I didn't know about the religious music. Of course some folk tunes
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> spirituals are somewhat religious.
>>>>> What else is on "Religious songs, congregational and ceremonial" 
>>>>> album?
>>>>> Is
>>>>>
>>>>> it just
>>>>> Claude's congregation? Based on the title of the song, I assume its
>>>>> music
>>>>> is by a harp, and other songs probably instrumental; after all back
>>>>> then
>>>>> they did not have the fancy base drums, electric guitars, and sound
>>>>> mixing
>>>>>
>>>>> we do for todays Christian bands.
>>>>>
>>>>> Older songs are only on old fashioned technology, i.e. cassette or
>>>>> records.
>>>>> Do you know if the library of congress still has this album? Maybe we
>>>>> can
>>>>> buy a copy from them?
>>>>> I'll also check the internet for any songs by this individual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Paul
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:58 PM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, Joshua, the only way I can get it to you, along with the other
>>>>> selections from that album, is by snail mail and via cassette as I
>>>>> don't
>>>>> have any way of burning a CD from the album itself.  If you would give
>>>>> me
>>>>> your address off list, will make you a copy and send it to you, albeit
>>>>> via
>>>>> snail mail, and I'm sure we know how slow that can be.  But, as I've
>>>>> always
>>>>> heard it said, better that way than not at all.  Paul
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 3:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the information!
>>>>>> I'm interested in this recording.
>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/26/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> If anyone here has a copy of the album "Religious Songs,
>>>>>>> Congregational
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Ceremonial," issued by the Library of Congress as part of their
>>>>>>> bicentennial
>>>>>>> celebration in 1976, Claude Ely's congregation is featured on the
>>>>>>> song
>>>>>>> "Little David, Play On Your Harp." The undersigned has that album.
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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