[Faith-talk] Shape note singing

Mon Nov 28 17:49:58 UTC 2011

Ashley:

The Church Of Christ, not to be confused with the Church Of Jesus
Christ Of Latter-day Saints, is a mostly-rural denomination. Aside
from the no-instrument rule, they teach that baptism is absolutely
necessary for salvation, and they are not shouty. If you want to hear
one of their radio shows to get a feel for it, listen Sunday morning
at 7:30 EST, 6:30 CST, for the Southside Church Of Christ on WAIN-FM
in Columbia, KY. http://out1.cmn.icy.abacast.com/wain-wainfm-64

On 11/28/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Joshua,
> The Bible certainly references instruments.
> I love singing with instruments and cannot imagine worship without it;
> without it is nice ocasionally though.
>
> Also, you might know of a church who doesn't do a given practice. But all
> churches are different, even among denominations. So Debbie's church, Church
> of Christ may be noninstrumental, and the one you know may do something
> quite different.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:25 AM
> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Shape note singing
>
> The Church of Christ, here in my community doesn't do it.
> I'm a Pentecostal, so I disagree with most of the teachings in that
> denomination.
> I'm not trying to force my views, but I believe, that if instruments
> are in heaven (se Revelation, where everyone has a golden harp,) that
> we're to have instruments in the church.
> The worship of the church, is to mirror, the worship in Heaven.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 11/28/11, Debbie Brown <63characters at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Shape note singing is still done in the nonistrumental Churches of Christ.
>> Many of the older people know nothing else.  You can get computer programs
>> that generate shape notes, but I forget the name of the one that some of
>> our
>> song leaders used.
>>
>> the good thing about that kind of music is that singing is for everyone.
>> It
>> is a command in the Bible to sing, and it is not meant for just a
>> professional choir, but for everyone.  I find people mumbling along with
>> an
>> organ not very inspiring.
>>
>> Debbie Brown
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to
>> thePoston Claude Ely from Joshua
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> I found out that shaped note singing came from the north and migrated down
>> south and was more popular in southern churches. So when we think of
>> shaped
>> note, we think of southern gospel and southern groups doing it; when I
>> researched many groups came up in the south such as the Wiregrass Sacred
>> Harp singers in Alabama.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:20 PM
>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to
>> thePost
>> on Claude Ely from Joshua
>>
>> Most Sacred Harp singing is done in Shaped Note style.
>> Southern Gospel was the only Shaped note style, but shaped notes have
>> disappeared, lately.
>> This style came into Southern Gospel, through the Church of God,
>> (Cleveland, TN,) (a Pentecostal group.)
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 11/27/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Because of the strong influence on the Christian life of the South by the
>>> Baptists, most probably it was that denomination, but not necessarily
>>> Southern Baptists as there are quite a few faith communities that use the
>>> name Baptist.  At least that's what I heard.  Paul
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] shape note significance was An Addition to
>>> thePost
>>> on Claude Ely from Joshua
>>>
>>>
>>> So Joshua, are you saying that some Quaker groups sang Sacred Harp music?
>>> Also, is all Sacred Harp music in the shape note form? I thought I heard
>>> Sacred harp that was not Sacred Harp sometime.
>>> Maybe shaped notes can be part of Sacred Harp, but does not have to be.
>>> What types of music has shaped note singing? I am not sure its around in
>>> modern churches, except maybe some traditional southern churches. When I
>>> studied music history, my dad did not know what shaped note music meant
>>> and
>>> he is from the south. We are white though; and perhaps it’s a black
>>> church
>>> thing.
>>> Since one part  is singing the scale of Doe, ray, me etc, its obvious
>>> when
>>> one hears shaped note singing. The other people sing the words.
>>>
>>> Its my understanding that Sacred Harp singing is 1. With no instruments;
>>> not
>>> sure how to spell the word for that. 2. It uses the Sacred Harp Hymnal.
>>> 3.
>>> The leader of the group is in the center. and 4. The singing sounds
>>> country-like with a nazal-like voice.
>>> It was common in southern churches, but I don't know what denomination.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:26 PM
>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>> Joshua
>>>
>>> The Quakers vary from group to group.
>>> Our group was affiliated with the Central Yearly Meeting of Friends,
>>> out of West Field, Indiana.
>>> We used the same hymnal as the Church of the Nazarine.
>>> We, in the United Pentecostal Church International use a hymnal
>>> called, "Sing Unto the Lord," which is not, the Sacred Harp.
>>> In the Appelachian Mountain area, they sang Sacred Harp, and Shaped
>>> Note style music.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 11/26/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>> Am I correct that quakers song sacred harp music?
>>>> Are you also saying that your church uses the Sacred Harp hymnal?
>>>> I thought Pentecostals used their own hymnal. Perhaps, though its just
>>>> your
>>>> preference to  like
>>>> older songs originating in other religious sects.
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:08 PM
>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>> Joshua
>>>>
>>>> We don't do Sacred Harp conventions, or "All Day Singing Schools,"
>>>> anymore.
>>>> Some of your Oneness Pentecostals, (like myself,) still sing the older
>>>> songs, and use the hymnal.
>>>> We have a diferent hymnal, than the other groups.
>>>> Our hymns aren't the songs of the 17, and 1800's.
>>>> Our hymns are Southern Gospel, from Dad Speer, Albert E Brumley, etc.
>>>> This, and the Black Gospel choir music is what I'd prefer, for Sunday
>>>> Morning worship service.
>>>> The "711" songs have got to go!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 11/26/11, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Paul,
>>>>> Thanks for telling us that the Loc issued religious  albums to the
>>>>> public.
>>>>> How many songs on this album?
>>>>> I might see if I can get some. Unfortunately, the general public isn't
>>>>> too
>>>>> interested in old fashioned gospel, particularly with no instruments
>>>>> backing
>>>>> the singers, so you can't find these old styles of music at Christian
>>>>> music
>>>>> stores. Ever noticed that Christian music sold at stores is often a
>>>>> group
>>>>> of
>>>>> singers with instruments; mostly c contemporary music. Its good music
>>>>> IMO;
>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> like the Wow worship cds, but I like old fashioned music too.
>>>>> This might explain why they did not convert Lps and cassettes to modern
>>>>> day
>>>>> Cds.
>>>>>
>>>>> I certainly heard of Sacred Harp singing; It is pretty.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be neat to hear a hymn done by lining.
>>>>> I've heard of that and think I first heard of that old technique in
>>>>> music
>>>>> class. It’s a technique, that to my knowledge, is not practiced in main
>>>>> line
>>>>> churches, and non denominational churches usually read lyrics from a
>>>>> screen
>>>>> rather than a hymnal.
>>>>> Now I'm real curious about this record! I think lining would be a great
>>>>> way
>>>>> to include everyone, not just those who can read and follow a hymnal.
>>>>> Its not just blind people that cannot read it, its others with learning
>>>>> disabilities or those who cannot hold a book open and read fast enough
>>>>> to
>>>>> sing for various reasons. Lining was a practice for a long time. It was
>>>>> used
>>>>> because not everyone could read a hymnal or if the church did not have
>>>>> a
>>>>> hymnal.
>>>>> I've seen Sacred Harp singing on Youtube.
>>>>> I wonder if southerners still sing and have sacred harp conventions?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll make note of the other albums.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care.
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Paul
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:50 PM
>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I can't rightly tell you about everything on the LP, but here's a
>>>>> sample.  There is an example of lining in which the song leader recites
>>>>> the
>>>>> first line of a hymn, in this case "Hosanna, Jesus Reigns," and then
>>>>> the
>>>>> congregation sings it.  Then the song leader recites the second line
>>>>> and
>>>>> then the congregation sings that also, and so on until the song is
>>>>> finished.
>>>>> This recording was originally made by Elder LaSeer (not sure of
>>>>> spelling)
>>>>> in
>>>>> a Primitive Baptist Church somewhere in western North Carolina in 1961.
>>>>> There is also another Primitive Baptist song entitled "The Lord Will
>>>>> Provide," recorded by Elder Bradley in Lone Pine KY in 1971.  Judging
>>>>> by
>>>>> the
>>>>> acoustics it sounds like it might have been recorded in a tent or an
>>>>> outdoor
>>>>> venue.  Then there is a song sung by 12 bearded Old Order Amish people
>>>>> from
>>>>> Colona, Iowa near Cedar Rapids, originally recorded in 1943 by Alton S.
>>>>> Bach
>>>>> and Addison Bach.  That's just a sample.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to other religious albums (when the LOC issued them to the general
>>>>> public), there is one entitled "Children of the Heavenly King:
>>>>> Religious
>>>>> Expressions of the Central Blue Ridge," originally issued in 1981 and
>>>>> featuring Primitive Baptist and other rural expressions of one's
>>>>> Christianity in areas of southwestern Virginia and northwestern North
>>>>> Carolina, encompassing the Virginia counties of Carrol, Grayson and
>>>>> Floyd
>>>>> and, in North Carolina, Ash and Wilts.  There is also an album of
>>>>> Alabama
>>>>> Sacred Harp Singing, which has nothing to do with the stringed
>>>>> instrument
>>>>> but is a unique style of a capella singing.  This was one of the early
>>>>> collections of the late Alan Lomax, originally recorded in Birmingham
>>>>> in
>>>>> August 1942 during the 37th Alabama Sacred Harp Singing Convention.
>>>>> Ditto
>>>>> for the song by Brother Claude Ely, although they used guitars and at
>>>>> least
>>>>> one mandolin.  For those of you who might be members of a chat
>>>>> community
>>>>> called Out of Sight, have a working microphone and soundcard, would be
>>>>> delighted to go into one of the audio chatrooms over there during the
>>>>> day
>>>>> when nothing is going on.  Just let me know in a reasonable amount of
>>>>> time,
>>>>> and would be more than glad to let you hear this admittedly unique and
>>>>> little-known form of singing.  Your Christian brother, Paul
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 6:19 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>> I haven't heard of this album or singer.
>>>>>> I didn't know the Library of congress issued religious music! I know
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> did folk tunes and some by the shakers and African American
>>>>>> spirituals,
>>>>>> but I didn't know about the religious music. Of course some folk tunes
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> spirituals are somewhat religious.
>>>>>> What else is on "Religious songs, congregational and ceremonial"
>>>>>> album?
>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it just
>>>>>> Claude's congregation? Based on the title of the song, I assume its
>>>>>> music
>>>>>> is by a harp, and other songs probably instrumental; after all back
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> they did not have the fancy base drums, electric guitars, and sound
>>>>>> mixing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we do for todays Christian bands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Older songs are only on old fashioned technology, i.e. cassette or
>>>>>> records.
>>>>>> Do you know if the library of congress still has this album? Maybe we
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> buy a copy from them?
>>>>>> I'll also check the internet for any songs by this individual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Paul
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:58 PM
>>>>>> To: Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, Joshua, the only way I can get it to you, along with the other
>>>>>> selections from that album, is by snail mail and via cassette as I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> have any way of burning a CD from the album itself.  If you would give
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> your address off list, will make you a copy and send it to you, albeit
>>>>>> via
>>>>>> snail mail, and I'm sure we know how slow that can be.  But, as I've
>>>>>> always
>>>>>> heard it said, better that way than not at all.  Paul
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> To: "Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and religion"
>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 3:36 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] An Addition to the Post on Claude Ely from
>>>>>> Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the information!
>>>>>>> I'm interested in this recording.
>>>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/26/11, Paul <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> If anyone here has a copy of the album "Religious Songs,
>>>>>>>> Congregational
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Ceremonial," issued by the Library of Congress as part of their
>>>>>>>> bicentennial
>>>>>>>> celebration in 1976, Claude Ely's congregation is featured on the
>>>>>>>> song
>>>>>>>> "Little David, Play On Your Harp." The undersigned has that album.
>>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
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