[Faith-talk] Revision to the concept of Original Sin inChristianity and Islam. Please my friends, read with your wisdom, and temporarily suspend your religious emotions.

Sat Dec 28 07:52:54 UTC 2013

Hello Mustafa, it has been nice to notice that your level of dislike for 
Christian doctrine has departed from such a seemingly hostel tone. You have 
came across much more respectfully lately. I have not skyped you so far 
because I have been working in my studio a lot and I only use Face Time to 
video chat right now. I have read this particular piece about three times 
from you in various forms, but have never addressed it.

Honestly, though you have given a clear and understandable summery of the 
facts, the things that are left out are glaring and pivotal to the 
understanding of original sin. I will try to look at a few components of the 
doctrine of original sin. The relationship that Adam and Eve had with God in 
the beginning represented a Holy relation and perfect relationship between 
God and man. I am not sure if you can understand the concept of something 
that is completely white, it is the purest color there is, once there is 
just the tiniest drop of any other color, the smallest speck of something on 
that whiteness it is no longer completely white. That is what Holiness is in 
some ways, it is complete and pure perfection and this is what God is and 
this is what he requires of anyone who resides in the Kingdom of Heaven, in 
the earthly citizenship as well as the heavenly population of invisible and 
visible beings.

When Adam and Eve ate from this apple and sinned, they placed a dark stain 
on that white background that represented the Holy union they possessed with 
God. Here is something I really want you to remember when you address this 
again, God doesn't just "Secretly" forgive sins. God is JUST! Remember that, 
one of His greatest attributes' is that He is a Just God. He requires 
justice. When He said, "He who sins will surely die," He meant it. If you 
saw a great earthly judge dismissing rapists, murderers and terrorist 
according to some secret prerogative you wouldn't think that was judgment. 
You would wonder why the biggest murderer, the Devil couldn't just 
conveniently get off the hook so easily.

That just touches a little on this point, but let me bring it into a more 
practical situation that involves love, the other attribute of God along 
with Justice. If there was a judge who was also a father and his son, little 
"Adam" who he loves very much goes out and breaks the law; he sets somebody's 
home on fire and is arrested. Now, say he comes before the father/judge in 
the court. The father, who as a sworn judge made an oath to uphold the law, 
represent the law and at the same time, as a father he has a responsibility 
to love his son. So, what does he do, does he let him walk out of the court 
and tell the watching world that he has forgiven him? Is that justice? One, 
no it is not justice, and two, somebody has to absorb the costs associated 
with replacing the home and then even after the home is replaced, there may 
be other losses related to the fire that are simply not replaceable. Let's 
take it further, perhaps that home costs millions of dollars and the son 
Adam could never in his lifetime repay the cost for his offence.

Now, let us take this to the garden, when Adam sinned, he didn't burn a 
house down, he burned a bridge, the bridge that connected the human race to 
God. The fact that God doesn't just "secretly" forgive shows how important 
God's atrabute of being a just God is. The fact that just one act of 
disobedience cost God the son his life shows how devastating the reparation 
to remove that offence is. That fact that God the son left his glory in 
heaven, the worship of angels, being "face to face" with the father as one, 
in perfect harmany, union, he  left all that, came down to live among men, 
be born in a barn, into poverty, be recognized as a mirror human, wash the 
dirty feet of his disciples, place his hand on lepers, be falsely convicted 
as a criminal, spit upon, whipped, humiliated, all to take our place as a 
lawless criminal, this act is the greatest demonstration of love that the 
world has ever seen. He didn't simply say, "Oh, I dismiss your sin that 
would minimize sin and make God un just and capricious. He upheld both his 
justice and his love at the same time, by fulfilling his own law and by 
loving humanity enough to become a redeemer, our atonement to keep justice 
complete and perfect before all of creation. The Old Testament cannot even 
be rightly understood without understanding this concept. It starts in the 
garden when Adam and Eve have to be dressed in the skin of dead animals, it 
was the first blood sacrifice, when Able took the best sheep from his flock 
to offer to God, when the Children of Israel had to take the best, sheep, 
without any mark/blemish, sacrifice it and place the blood from it on the 
door post of their homes so that the Angel of death would pass over and only 
strike the first born of your own Egyptian countrymen. Then we have the 
bronze Serpent that was lifted up in the desert and who ever looked up on it 
was not killed. We have over 300 prophecies that talk about the birth, life 
and death of Jesus. The reality of a blood atonement, the justice of God, 
His Holiness, loving kindness and the coming Messiah are woven through every 
book in the Old Testament. I may get into the fact that this stain/disease 
is passed through the entire human race if you feel that anything I have 
said thus far is even slightly interesting to you.

As it stands right now, I am not as articulate as you in my ability to write 
lengthy essays so I will leave it at this. If you have any thoughts about 
anything I have written, feel free to comment or question.

Blessings

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mostafa" <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 5:28 PM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Revision to the concept of Original Sin inChristianity 
and Islam. Please my friends, read with your wisdom,and temporarily suspend 
your religious emotions.

>
>
> Dear all, Peace be with you.
>
>                    I hope you all are keeping really well.
>
> Today, I just intended to rewrite this essay for mindful recreations.
>
> For those who follow my posts regularly, they know that I previously 
> discussed the concept of original sin  within Christianity and Islam.
>
> Well today, I am just going to refresh your memories.
>
> What is Original sin in Christianity?
>
> Well basicly, it is the belief that Adam and Eve, they both sinned by 
> eating from the forbidden tree, the tree that has the knowledge of good 
> and evil.
>
> Consequently, their sin has been made a part of their nature.
>
> God was angry with them, and He made the sinful attitude to consecutively 
> be inherited, generation upon generation.
>
> God thought how could He possibly resolve this terribly annoying trouble.
>
> There were multiple options to consider but, God decided to fix the 
> problem unusually, yet inconsistently in my humble opinion.
>
> At its inception, He had to have a son, he was begotten, not made.
>
> Begotten means generated, not originated.
>
> So according to the concept of Original Sin in Christianity, God has 
> begotten  a son.
>
> His son have had to pay the cost for humanity.
>
> He was brutally   Crucified to redeem the disgrace of humanity.
>
> It seems to me, and I think, it does for any sensible individual, that God 
> had to shed blood to atone.
>
> That is the concept of original sin in Christianity.
>
> The concept of original sin in Christianity is essentially the bedrock of 
> the doctrinal tennets of Crucifixion and redemption.
>
> The concept is predominantly undecipherable, and it is demonstratively 
> fallacious on the rational stance.
>
>      So in  concise terms and contrasting equivalence,  what is the 
> concept of original sin according to our Islamic perspective?
>
> It is the explicit disobedience of Lucifer to Allah, and his arrogance of 
> declining to prostrate to Adam, a prostration of honour, not a prostration 
> of submission.
>
> Lucifer believed that he is superior than Adam, because he was created 
> from smokeless fire, whilst Adam was created from mud.
>
> Thus, Lucifer hates and hostiles Adam along with his ancestry because of 
> their race.
>
> It is a superlative disposition, a racial standpoint.
>
> He directly challenged Allah, that he will take Adam and his children with 
> him to hell, because he is convinced that they are the ones who made him 
> expelled.
>
> So he was the innovator, and his assimilators were the cofounders of 
> racism.
>
>        That is the concept of original sin in Islam.
>
> It does not belong to Adam and Eve, it belongs to the Devil, and 
> consequently, it is not inherited.
>
> Well, so did Adam and Eve eat from the forbidden tree in Islam?
>
> Yes, the scenario is just the same, but the concept is quite different.
>
> When they sinned, Allah has atoned their resentment without any
> Discretion nor He awaited to sacrifice someone.
>
>
>
> He is all Omnipotent, and sequently, He just atoned them.
>
>
>
> In Islam, we do not blame the sin on Eve, nor we believe she tempted her 
> husband.
>
>
>
> We believe that the Devil has beguiled  both of them simultaneously.
>
>
>
> Therefore, we just curse the Devil, we condemn this act for what it is, 
> and we held them both equally accountable for their own misdeed.
>
>
>
>
>
>  In Islam, Allah gave them the chance to repent, so they did, and He 
> atoned them, simple as that.
>
>
>
> In Islam, we consider Adam and Eve as our initial parents, and we do not 
> blame them for any subjection of Original sin.
>
>
>
> I just attended to eliminate the theological duplications, so you can 
> conveniently determine yourself and recognize the plain difference.
>
>
>
> Do not be afraid of using your intellectual principles to recognize the 
> truth.
>
>
>
> Your mind is there for a reason, and it has a job to do.
>
>
>
> If it was insignificant, Allah would have not created it.
>
>
>
> I do not impose my subjective views on you, and I do not expect you to 
> abandon your faith though.
>
>
>
> I just encourage you to use the bounty of intelligence, which Allah made 
> in you.
>
>
>
> Why He did not make us slugs instead?
>
>
>
> Because He expects us to think.
>
>
>
> That is the distinctive characteristic which Allah gave to Adam and his 
> children, and that is our intelligence, and our adequacy to blame 
> ourselves when we slip up.
>
>
>
> Thank you for reading, and have a pleasant time, Happy new year.
>
>
>
> Peace be with you.
>
>
>
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