[Faith-talk] Faith-talk Digest, Vol 76, Issue 16

[Mostafa Almahdy]

I wonder, in which Christian category you will ultimately fit in.

It's a war, that I accepted to be engaged in, whilst I didn't start it.

On 11/16/13, faith-talk-request at nfbnet.org
<faith-talk-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. The subject which noone talks about. (Mostafa)
>    2. Who is God? A theological essay. (Mostafa)
>    3. Re: The subject which noone talks about. (Poppa Bear)
>    4. Re: The subject which noone talks about. (Timothy Clark Music)
>    5. Daily Thought for Friday, November 15, 2013 (Paul)
>    6. Origin of the Trinity. (Mostafa)
>    7. Re: Origin of the Trinity. (Timothy Clark Music)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 15:21:52 +0200
> From: "Mostafa" <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Subject: [Faith-talk] The subject which noone talks about.
> Message-ID: <7195C770878B4E6EA9C194A9046C5C30 at Win7PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1256"
>
> This is a very important post.
>
>
>
> This is the subject, which nobody talks about.
>
>
>
> Please, read, comprehend and share.
>
>
>
> So, what is Christian Zionism?
>
> Christian Zionism is a political movement, which originally descends from a
> gravely radical element of Protestantism. They mostly live abroad,
> particularly, in the United states, and they are theologically motivated by
> the christian zionist notorious influence.  They predominantly believe in
> the literal interpretation of the Bible. And, they derive a bitter  notion,
> based on that particular doctrinal tennet. Among the main founders and key
> directors of this extremist movement, are Pastor John Hagee, the radical
> evangelical Televangelist Pat Robertson, the fabricating author, Robert
> Spencer with his awful companion, the liar Pamela Geller, and finally, the
> heavily prevaricator and eternally expelled ex Coptic Father, zakaria
> botros. Due to his stubborn profanity and inflammatory remarks, he was
> permanently banned from the Coptic Church. I personally verified that with
> local coptic officials. He was eternally banished from the Church for his
> shameful misbehaviors and verbal assaults. He is now a radical Protestant
> apologist, currently inhabits the United states.    Formerly, he used to be
> an actor at the Church. He currently lives in the United states, and he is
> in a regular communication with the radical missionaries I just listed
> above. He is quite popular for his anti-islam views, his affirmative
> discourtesy, his dishonourable statements,     his intentional misquotes,
> misinterpretations, and acrimonious corruptions of Islamic text. Well for
> instance, he wickedly insulted muslim women who wear Hijab. He sarcastically
> described them them as the darken tents. He said horrible things about our
> noble prophet, (salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam), and he wickedly abused his
> wives.   He deliberately devises the meaning which helps him to forge, to
> develop and promote an assaulting propaganda about Islamic teachings.   Well
> however, his malefactor   equivocations were informatively countered,
> substantially refuted and invalidated by Doctor Fadel Solomon, along with
> many other prominent muslim clerics.  Well ordinarily, such hateful pastors
> and apologists are quite known for their enormously provocative disposition
> about Islam. They strongly adhere a Zionist agenda, and it's their top
> priority to advocate for guarding Israel national security. They constantly
> call for that in the Congress, and in another major domestic political
> assemblies in the United states. Furthermore, they strenuously exert their
> efforts, to essentially invoke theological suspicions among muslim masses. I
> was previously asked by couple of christian Zionists, to watch Zakaria
> botros episodes about Islam. One of them is an Arab, and another one is
> American. I would like to thank them pretty much for their sincere advice.
> They just helped me exposing to the publicity who Zakaria botros is. They
> never searched who is Zakaria Botros , nor they never bothered themselves to
> just verify whether he was theologically certified to talk about Islam the
> way he does. They just liked the fact, that he appears in the television,
> assaulting Islam, and posing incorrect alegations about Islamic sources.
>
>
>
>
>
> Little that they know about the so called Zakaria botros religious bigotry,
> his malicious intent, and his terrific perfidy to his egyptian identity. He
> calls Egypt a terrorist state, wavering that notion to those who he may be
> in touch with at the Congress, while attempting to encourage them to
> potentially label Egypt as a threatening entity, and to even occupy Egypt
> militarily if that was necessary. He even insulted the coptic Pope in Egypt.
> Moreover, it's overwhelmingly evidenced against him, that he stands behind
> the nigrified curtains of innocence of muslims, the detrimental film which
> sparked outrage and violence around the world. Although, he doesn't directly
> appear at the front, but it is allegedly leavened that he is actually behind
> the seen, and that all the reprehensible concepts were actually inspired by
> his hateful views.       Is that your best role-model sir? Wow. Couldn't you
> just find any better? I'm personally convinced that Zakaria botros and his
> assimilators are tremendously inspired by a hidden plot, a deeply concealed
> Zionist agenda. The coptic church is extremely commendable for formally
> disposing this maligned hater. I would like his supporters to present their
> significant evidence, that proves his exoneration if they have any.
> Furthermore, I would kindly ask my respectful recipients, to just hit over
> to the following URL:
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.cufi.org
>
>
>
>
>
> Christians United for Israel. Or CUFI for short.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This is the official website of this lobby, which was founded by Pastor Jhon
> Hagee. Many christian organizations in the United states today, are utterly
> affiliated with that radical lobby. It?s largely sponsored by Christian
> organizations and individuals around the country. You may tour their
> website, and then, you may possibly ask yourself;
>
>
>
>
>
> What on earth a religious association has to do with political interests?
>
>
>
>
>
> Why they would be affiliated with a lobby, that explicitly fundraises, to
> supply Israel militarily?
>
>
>
>
>
> I can present conspicuous evidents that substantially proves my
> proclaimation.
>
>
>
>
>
> Christians United for Israel is the largest Christian lobby in the United
> states, which essentially advocates for Christian sustainable alignment with
> the state of Israel. In their annual summit of 2012, Netanyahu was the
> keynote speaker for this particular convention.
>
> Here you go:
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqgDKbGUdT0
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kindly, can someone explain to me, what does that mean?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The major essence of this Christian dispensationalism is of its political
> apostasy. They label Islam as their common enemy in spades.
>
>
>
> You may watch this.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODwSdugsvJg
>
>
>
> Now, how can we determine whether someone is a Christian Zionist or not?
>
>
>
> What do we need to examine?
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, at its inception, we need to verify, whether someone or his Church
> congregation are affiliated with any significant assets in Israel.
>
>
>
> Secondly, we need to verify whether someone or his Church congregation are
> radically assaulting Islam, considering it as a major threat.
>
>
>
>    Furthermore, we need to verify whether someone or his Church congregation
> are publishing hateful materials about Islam, Muslims, and Muslim
> countries.
>
>
>
> I am skeptic of using the compound term, the middle east. Because it?s an
> Israeli recognition.
>
>
>
> There are many Christian Zionist websites and online publications.
>
>
>
> Well amongst them are:
>
>
>
> faithfreedom.org, jihadwatch.org, muslimhope.org, and the list goes on.
>
> Well, I am sharing this to essentially expand the mass awareness and
> consciousness about religious extremism.
>
>
>
> As I am intensely against the brotherhood religious extremism, I am also
> against the Christian religious extremism.
>
>
>
> If any religious denomination decided to highjack its faith, to use it in
> gaining political aims, that would probably be considered as Zionism.
>
>
>
> Zionism is a broadly controversial term, it reflects a negative connotation,
> and in my humble opinion, it hasn?t yet been accurately defined.
>
>
>
>        Do you want to know what the term Zionist actually means?
>
>
>
> Listen to its principles layed out by a former Zionist figure, Benjamin
> Freedman.
>
>
>
> Benjamin Freedman has given a bravely patriotic speech to his nation in
> 1961.
>
>
>
> He warned them about the threat of growing Zionism.
>
>
>
>
>
>   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A2Nc8Fjx2k
>
>
>
> Zionism is any faithful movement, which trespasses the religious tennets of
> its denomination,  to essentially attain political ambitions, or financial
> global dominance.
>
>
>
>   Zionist Jews and Christians are influentially imposing their eminent
> authority onto the decision making arena in the United states.
>
>
>
> This is not a secret for sure.
>
>
>
> Whilst it?s not something to veil, many Americans unfortunately, are
> perfectly deceived and disinformed.
>
>
>
> My post hasn?t been intended to denounce or to desecrate someone?s faith.
>
>
>
> To the contrary, I just intended to widespread awareness and enlightenment
> to my friends.
>
>
>
> Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, they all are sharing common fundamentals,
> and they all are advocating for tolerance and deference.
>
>
>
> We may all agree or disagree on certain theological concepts but, what I am
> warning about is totally of a different story.
>
>
>
> I am warning about a political apostasy, which commits  atrocities in the
> name of the divine.
>
>
>
> I hope I haven?t offended anyone.
>
>
>
> My post is intended to address the difference in between religious devotion
> and, the vicious   defection which aims to gain political interest,
> throughout misusing religious symbols.
>
>
>
> There could be Zionist Jews, Christian Zionists, or even, Muslim Zionists
> for that matter.
>
>
>
> Yes, definitely.
>
>
>
> And this is why we rejected the brotherhood ruling Egypt.
>
>
>
> Because they were misusing religious symbols, for essentially dominating
> Egyptians, tiredly restricting them, and invalidly speaking on God?s
> behalf.
>
>
>
> I personally consider Iran as a Zionist Muslim state.
>
>
>
> The United states is a Zionist Christian state.
>
>
>
> Israel, is a Zionist Jewish state.
>
>
>
> They all highjack religious fundamentals for political gains.
>
>
>
> This is a turning point.
>
>
>
>     Zionism is the major threat to the whole world.
>
>
>
> Zionism is the major source of religious extremism in all religions, which
> nourishes radicalism, terrorism, and atrocity.
>
> I quite recognize the Christian Zionist pestiferous influence on American
> media.
>
> These people ought to be firmly stood against.
>
> They label Islam as their major threat, and they constantly promote
> poisonous thoughts about Islam.
>
> They are unified with the racial state of Israel.
>
> I challenge the Christian dispensationalism and   Apocalyptic Rapture
> theologians to just criticize Israel.
>
> I will never get tired of speaking at this subject, over, and over again.
>
> I will constantly warn Americans, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, and everyone
> else of this eminent threat.
>
> Christian Zionism is even more dangerous than Jewish Zionism.
>
> They misuse religious symbles to deceive their audience.
>
> Please, it doesn?t matter where do you live in the world.
>
> It doesn?t matter who you are, or what?s your religion.
>
> You must recognize, that Christian Zionist Evangelists are persistently
> supporting the state of Israel, whilst utterlly dismissing the plainly
> insensate atrocities, which Israel commits on a daily basis against
> Palestinian civilians, either they were Muslims, or Christians.
>     In addition, Christian Zionist Evangelists tolerate roket strikes,
> Neuclar bombing of Palestinian civil means, as long as that justifys
> expanding the settlement construction of Israel military occupation.
>
> Christian Zionist Evangelists encourage nourishing the radical sense and
> sectarian strife among Muslims and Christians in mostly populated Muslim
> countries, to justify the foreign intervension to defy the fraudulently
> proclaimed religious persecution   which they emphatically fabricate.
>
>    Christian Zionism is not a myth.
>
> The real myth is to attempt denying its existence and its effective presence
> onto the United states political rhetoric.
>
> Please, don?t think I am exaggerating.
>
> Help me spreading the cautionary sentiment, warning the people about the
> Christian Zionist influential authority.
> If you were a Christian, and you attempted to somehow belittle the subject?s
> substantial enormity, I am afraid that I will have to consider you involved,
> or influenced by this political ideology.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 17:40:21 +0200
> From: "Mostafa" <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Who is God? A theological essay.
> Message-ID: <74F8BC9EE11040989F00123784C09D02 at Win7PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1256"
>
> Who is God?
>
>
>
> Who is God?, A theological analysis.
>
>
>
> This analytic piece of composition aims to essentially attain the
> following:
>
>
>
> 1; To establish the meaning, which is necessary to learn, to identify the
> genuine concept of monotheism.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2; To clearly demonstrate the major essence of the monotheistic faith, so
> anything else that differs from the stated description of monotheism, will
> explicitly  considered to be utterly polytheism.
>
> 3; To clearly demonstrate, that any flattery is unexpected, to worship
> others than God, or in association with Him is intensely intolerable, and
> that the oneness of God Almighty has to sincerely be outloud.
>
>
>
> I am inviting you to worship God alone, without any associates.
>
>
>
> Now, God willing, I chronologically arranged ten major factors in the
> section below, which conveniently illustrates who God is, and what does
> monotheism mean.
>
>
>
>
>
> 1';God is the Creator.
>
>
>
>   Jews, Christians and Muslims agree with that proposition, which says; God
> created everything.
>
>
>
> He perfectly created everything, and He never felt exhausted, He never
> needed to rest, as some scriptures incorrectly portrayed.
>
> He perfectly has made everything, that flys, walks or crawls.
>
>
>
> >From nothing, He just made everything.
>
>
>
> For God to create His all creation, He just says unto it; Be, and it is.
>
>
>
> This is by which He created Adam, Eve, all their grandchildren, Jesus (peace
> be upon him), and everything else.
>
>
>
> He is all willing, all aware, glory be to Him.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2; God is all Transcendent.
>
>   His knowledge, wisdom, the singularity of His capability, they all are
> exceedingly surpassing the human insignificant adequacy and apprehension.
>
>
>
>  We believe in God as the most Eminent, the most Glorious, and indeed, the
> all Sovereign.
>
>
>
>
>
> 3; God is all Omnipotent.
>
> He glory be to Him has an illimitable mightiness, by which He basicly, is
> able to do anything, and that emphatically includes, to decease or resurrect
> any of His creation, to either approve or decline our faith, to either
> approve or decline our deeds. God is able to  bestow His grace and to atone
> the human cynicism unconditionally. He enormously is all Forgiving, glory be
> to Him.
>
>
>
>
>
> 4; God is all Eternal.
>
>
>
> We certainly believe, that God never came to existence. He always exists, in
> a manner that is appropriate to His glorious entity. He is the alpha and
> omega, from eternity, for eternity.
>
>
>
> 5; God is one.
>
>
>
> We believe, that God is one, in a singular unique sense.
>
>
>
> His oneness is predominantly unparalleled.
>
>
>
> He is not a triune being.
>
>
>
> He is just one, that is unmatchable. He doesn?t share His ultimate Glory
> with any of His creation.
>
>
>
> He doesn?t bear a son.
>
> There isn?t any attested belief which assumes, that part of the godhead
> somehow lives in us, which they call the Holy spirit, who in Islam is
> defined as Angel Gabriel, the Angel of revelation. He is the conduit of God
> Almighty, devoted to convey the revelation to His prophets, and he is indeed
> not divine,   as some polytheists assert nowadays.
>
>
>
> 6; God is all imortal.
>
>
>
> God doesn?t die.
>
>
>
> Because if he dies, he is not God anymore.
>
>
>
> Some Polytheists today falsely proclaim, that Jesus has two natures. One is
> mortal, and another that is heavenly divine. Well emphatically, such claims
> are extraordinarily blasphemous, and explicitly polytheistic by demand.
>
>
>
> Noone can licitly worship God, whilst he presumptuously desecrates the grand
> resplendency of God Almighty.
>
>
>
> 7'; God is all Incomparable.
>
>
>
>     Such that comparison is impossible, unsuitable for comparison or lacking
> qualities that can be compared to His glorious entity.
>
>
>
> God is not physically structured.
>
>
>
> God has no physical representation or incarnation with any of  His
> creation.
>
>
>
> He created them, so how come for Him, to be what He has created?
>
>
>
> This is philosophically inconsistent, and religiously polytheistic.
>
>
>
>
>
> 8; God is all Omniscient.
>
>
>
> He indeed knows everything.
>
>
>
> His knowledge is unlimited by either space, time or scope. He is all
> knowing, all Wise.
>
>
>
> There isn?t something that He doesn?t know.
>
>
>
> According to the Bible, however, Jesus was unaware of some information.
>
>
>
> He didn?t know when the endtime is going to be.
>
>
>
> A Christian Apologist will attempt to rebuttal by proclaiming, that this was
> the mortal Jesus, not the divine one.
>
>
>
>  Well, an independent clarification is mandatory to prove that
> proclaimation.
>
>
>
> The concept of the two nature is of a contemporary recognition, and it is
> theologically developed, as numerous historical sources have incisively
> affirmed.
>
>
>
> 9; God is Omnipresent.
>
>
>
> He simply is everywhere. He is never limited by either time or distance,
> because He created both of them.
>
>
>
> 10; God is all Resplendent.
>
>
>
> His eminent Glory is nonpareil, utterly unmatchable. He is not to be
> physically impersonated in mortal beings, and in the flesh.
>
>
>
> This is the God that we believe in.
>
>
>
> Anyone who chose to believe in these ten major principles, is considered to
> be sincerely monotheistic. And otherwise, will absolutely be polytheistic.
>
>
>
>
>
>  These principles are utterly attributed to God Almighty.
>
>
>
> We as Muslims believe that God is unambiguously singular in His oneness.
>
>
>
> His characteristics are greatly unadulterated.
>
>
>
> Would you mind me asking you a question; Do you believe in God as I listed
> His major attributes and characteristics for you?
>
>
>
> If you believe in so, then why you stubbornly insist to worship God?s
> creation?
>
>
>
> Would you mind me asking you another question?
>
>
>
> Do you believe that God is able to create anything He wants to create?
>
>
>
> Is God able to create someone in a woman?s womb without any physical
> intervension?, meaning, without a father.
>
>
>
> If you believe in so, then the whole argument dissolves.
>
>
>
> Yes indeed, because this is precisely the decisive criteria of Jesus
> physical entity.
>
>
>
> Can you specify the major motive that encourages you to worship Jesus?
>
>
>
>   I have another question though:
>
>
>
> Why Muhammad salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam has built his own Mosque, whilst
> Jesus salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam hasn?t built his Church?
>
>
>
> He just worshipped with the Jews at their Temple, their house of worship,
> the Synagogue.
>
>
>
> Well this point may consecutively lead to another crucial fact.
>
> If Jesus was absolutely divine, then why he demanded to pray?
>
>
>
> To whom Jesus prayed?
>
>
>
> Did he pray to himself?
>
>
>
> If this is the mortal Jesus that prayed, and not the divine one, well, you
> just need to show me your evident from the Bible.
>
>
>
> Please, quote the Bible for that matter.
>
>
>
> If you perceive that you are theologically ineligible to sufficiently
> respond, you may please pass my queries over to some adequate reverent who
> would do so.
>
>
>
> Please, feel free to pass over these enquiries to the pastoral entitlement
> of your choice.
>
>
>
> Thank you so much, and I look forward to hearing from you.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 07:59:09 -0900
> From: "Poppa Bear" <heavens4real at gmail.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,	for the discussion of faith and religion"
> 	<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] The subject which noone talks about.
> Message-ID: <A6F4C7BFD305491F990E758F19F654A7 at homepc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1256";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> I wonder how long these posts have been being recycled?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mostafa" <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 4:21 AM
> Subject: [Faith-talk] The subject which noone talks about.
>
>
>> This is a very important post.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the subject, which nobody talks about.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please, read, comprehend and share.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, what is Christian Zionism?
>>
>> Christian Zionism is a political movement, which originally descends from
>>
>> a gravely radical element of Protestantism. They mostly live abroad,
>> particularly, in the United states, and they are theologically motivated
>> by the christian zionist notorious influence.  They predominantly believe
>>
>> in the literal interpretation of the Bible. And, they derive a bitter
>> notion, based on that particular doctrinal tennet. Among the main founders
>>
>> and key directors of this extremist movement, are Pastor John Hagee, the
>> radical evangelical Televangelist Pat Robertson, the fabricating author,
>> Robert Spencer with his awful companion, the liar Pamela Geller, and
>> finally, the heavily prevaricator and eternally expelled ex Coptic Father,
>>
>> zakaria botros. Due to his stubborn profanity and inflammatory remarks, he
>>
>> was permanently banned from the Coptic Church. I personally verified that
>>
>> with local coptic officials. He was eternally banished from the Church for
>>
>> his shameful misbehaviors and verbal assaults. He is now a radical
>> Protestant apologist, currently inhabits the United states.    Formerly,
>> he used to be an actor at the Church. He currently lives in the United
>> states, and he is in a regular communication with the radical missionaries
>>
>> I just listed above. He is quite popular for his anti-islam views, his
>> affirmative discourtesy, his dishonourable statements,     his intentional
>>
>> misquotes, misinterpretations, and acrimonious corruptions of Islamic
>> text. Well for instance, he wickedly insulted muslim women who wear Hijab.
>>
>> He sarcastically described them them as the darken tents. He said horrible
>>
>> things about our noble prophet, (salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam), and he
>> wickedly abused his wives.   He deliberately devises the meaning which
>> helps him to forge, to develop and promote an assaulting propaganda about
>>
>> Islamic teachings.   Well however, his malefactor   equivocations were
>> informatively countered, substantially refuted and invalidated by Doctor
>> Fadel Solomon, along with many other prominent muslim clerics.  Well
>> ordinarily, such hateful pastors and apologists are quite known for their
>>
>> enormously provocative disposition about Islam. They strongly adhere a
>> Zionist agenda, and it's their top priority to advocate for guarding
>> Israel national security. They constantly call for that in the Congress,
>> and in another major domestic political assemblies in the United states.
>> Furthermore, they strenuously exert their efforts, to essentially invoke
>> theological suspicions among muslim masses. I was previously asked by
>> couple of christian Zionists, to watch Zakaria botros episodes about
>> Islam. One of them is an Arab, and another one is American. I would like
>> to thank them pretty much for their sincere advice. They just helped me
>> exposing to the publicity who Zakaria botros is. They never searched who
>> is Zakaria Botros , nor they never bothered themselves to just verify
>> whether he was theologically certified to talk about Islam the way he
>> does. They just liked the fact, that he appears in the television,
>> assaulting Islam, and posing incorrect alegations about Islamic sources.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Little that they know about the so called Zakaria botros religious
>> bigotry, his malicious intent, and his terrific perfidy to his egyptian
>> identity. He calls Egypt a terrorist state, wavering that notion to those
>>
>> who he may be in touch with at the Congress, while attempting to encourage
>>
>> them to potentially label Egypt as a threatening entity, and to even
>> occupy Egypt militarily if that was necessary. He even insulted the coptic
>>
>> Pope in Egypt. Moreover, it's overwhelmingly evidenced against him, that
>> he stands behind the nigrified curtains of innocence of muslims, the
>> detrimental film which sparked outrage and violence around the world.
>> Although, he doesn't directly appear at the front, but it is allegedly
>> leavened that he is actually behind the seen, and that all the
>> reprehensible concepts were actually inspired by his hateful views.
>> Is that your best role-model sir? Wow. Couldn't you just find any better?
>>
>> I'm personally convinced that Zakaria botros and his assimilators are
>> tremendously inspired by a hidden plot, a deeply concealed Zionist agenda.
>>
>> The coptic church is extremely commendable for formally disposing this
>> maligned hater. I would like his supporters to present their significant
>> evidence, that proves his exoneration if they have any. Furthermore, I
>> would kindly ask my respectful recipients, to just hit over to the
>> following URL:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.cufi.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Christians United for Israel. Or CUFI for short.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the official website of this lobby, which was founded by Pastor
>> Jhon Hagee. Many christian organizations in the United states today, are
>> utterly affiliated with that radical lobby. It?s largely sponsored by
>> Christian organizations and individuals around the country. You may tour
>> their website, and then, you may possibly ask yourself;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What on earth a religious association has to do with political interests?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why they would be affiliated with a lobby, that explicitly fundraises, to
>>
>> supply Israel militarily?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I can present conspicuous evidents that substantially proves my
>> proclaimation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Christians United for Israel is the largest Christian lobby in the United
>>
>> states, which essentially advocates for Christian sustainable alignment
>> with the state of Israel. In their annual summit of 2012, Netanyahu was
>> the keynote speaker for this particular convention.
>>
>> Here you go:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqgDKbGUdT0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kindly, can someone explain to me, what does that mean?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The major essence of this Christian dispensationalism is of its political
>>
>> apostasy. They label Islam as their common enemy in spades.
>>
>>
>>
>> You may watch this.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODwSdugsvJg
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, how can we determine whether someone is a Christian Zionist or not?
>>
>>
>>
>> What do we need to examine?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, at its inception, we need to verify, whether someone or his Church
>> congregation are affiliated with any significant assets in Israel.
>>
>>
>>
>> Secondly, we need to verify whether someone or his Church congregation are
>>
>> radically assaulting Islam, considering it as a major threat.
>>
>>
>>
>>   Furthermore, we need to verify whether someone or his Church
>> congregation are publishing hateful materials about Islam, Muslims, and
>> Muslim countries.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am skeptic of using the compound term, the middle east. Because it?s an
>>
>> Israeli recognition.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are many Christian Zionist websites and online publications.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well amongst them are:
>>
>>
>>
>> faithfreedom.org, jihadwatch.org, muslimhope.org, and the list goes on.
>>
>> Well, I am sharing this to essentially expand the mass awareness and
>> consciousness about religious extremism.
>>
>>
>>
>> As I am intensely against the brotherhood religious extremism, I am also
>> against the Christian religious extremism.
>>
>>
>>
>> If any religious denomination decided to highjack its faith, to use it in
>>
>> gaining political aims, that would probably be considered as Zionism.
>>
>>
>>
>> Zionism is a broadly controversial term, it reflects a negative
>> connotation, and in my humble opinion, it hasn?t yet been accurately
>> defined.
>>
>>
>>
>>       Do you want to know what the term Zionist actually means?
>>
>>
>>
>> Listen to its principles layed out by a former Zionist figure, Benjamin
>> Freedman.
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin Freedman has given a bravely patriotic speech to his nation in
>> 1961.
>>
>>
>>
>> He warned them about the threat of growing Zionism.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A2Nc8Fjx2k
>>
>>
>>
>> Zionism is any faithful movement, which trespasses the religious tennets
>> of its denomination,  to essentially attain political ambitions, or
>> financial global dominance.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Zionist Jews and Christians are influentially imposing their eminent
>> authority onto the decision making arena in the United states.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is not a secret for sure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Whilst it?s not something to veil, many Americans unfortunately, are
>> perfectly deceived and disinformed.
>>
>>
>>
>> My post hasn?t been intended to denounce or to desecrate someone?s faith.
>>
>>
>>
>> To the contrary, I just intended to widespread awareness and enlightenment
>>
>> to my friends.
>>
>>
>>
>> Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, they all are sharing common
>> fundamentals, and they all are advocating for tolerance and deference.
>>
>>
>>
>> We may all agree or disagree on certain theological concepts but, what I
>> am warning about is totally of a different story.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am warning about a political apostasy, which commits  atrocities in the
>>
>> name of the divine.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope I haven?t offended anyone.
>>
>>
>>
>> My post is intended to address the difference in between religious
>> devotion and, the vicious   defection which aims to gain political
>> interest, throughout misusing religious symbols.
>>
>>
>>
>> There could be Zionist Jews, Christian Zionists, or even, Muslim Zionists
>>
>> for that matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, definitely.
>>
>>
>>
>> And this is why we rejected the brotherhood ruling Egypt.
>>
>>
>>
>> Because they were misusing religious symbols, for essentially dominating
>> Egyptians, tiredly restricting them, and invalidly speaking on God?s
>> behalf.
>>
>>
>>
>> I personally consider Iran as a Zionist Muslim state.
>>
>>
>>
>> The United states is a Zionist Christian state.
>>
>>
>>
>> Israel, is a Zionist Jewish state.
>>
>>
>>
>> They all highjack religious fundamentals for political gains.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a turning point.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Zionism is the major threat to the whole world.
>>
>>
>>
>> Zionism is the major source of religious extremism in all religions, which
>>
>> nourishes radicalism, terrorism, and atrocity.
>>
>> I quite recognize the Christian Zionist pestiferous influence on American
>>
>> media.
>>
>> These people ought to be firmly stood against.
>>
>> They label Islam as their major threat, and they constantly promote
>> poisonous thoughts about Islam.
>>
>> They are unified with the racial state of Israel.
>>
>> I challenge the Christian dispensationalism and   Apocalyptic Rapture
>> theologians to just criticize Israel.
>>
>> I will never get tired of speaking at this subject, over, and over again.
>>
>> I will constantly warn Americans, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, and everyone
>>
>> else of this eminent threat.
>>
>> Christian Zionism is even more dangerous than Jewish Zionism.
>>
>> They misuse religious symbles to deceive their audience.
>>
>> Please, it doesn?t matter where do you live in the world.
>>
>> It doesn?t matter who you are, or what?s your religion.
>>
>> You must recognize, that Christian Zionist Evangelists are persistently
>> supporting the state of Israel, whilst utterlly dismissing the plainly
>> insensate atrocities, which Israel commits on a daily basis against
>> Palestinian civilians, either they were Muslims, or Christians.
>>    In addition, Christian Zionist Evangelists tolerate roket strikes,
>> Neuclar bombing of Palestinian civil means, as long as that justifys
>> expanding the settlement construction of Israel military occupation.
>>
>> Christian Zionist Evangelists encourage nourishing the radical sense and
>> sectarian strife among Muslims and Christians in mostly populated Muslim
>> countries, to justify the foreign intervension to defy the fraudulently
>> proclaimed religious persecution   which they emphatically fabricate.
>>
>>   Christian Zionism is not a myth.
>>
>> The real myth is to attempt denying its existence and its effective
>> presence onto the United states political rhetoric.
>>
>> Please, don?t think I am exaggerating.
>>
>> Help me spreading the cautionary sentiment, warning the people about the
>> Christian Zionist influential authority.
>> If you were a Christian, and you attempted to somehow belittle the
>> subject?s
>> substantial enormity, I am afraid that I will have to consider you
>> involved, or influenced by this political ideology.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/heavens4real%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:09:47 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Music <timothyclarkmusic at me.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,	for the discussion of faith and religion"
> 	<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] The subject which noone talks about.
> Message-ID: <48C29E94-FCBB-48AB-985D-E51DE187AD00 at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256
>
> hello there, i happen to be a person who likes pastor hagee?s ideas. you
> know. i believe god is a spirit.
>  read here.
> http://timothyclark13.blogspot.com/2013/11/exposing-trinity.html
> On Kislev 12, 5774 AM, at 8:21, Mostafa <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> This is a very important post.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the subject, which nobody talks about.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please, read, comprehend and share.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, what is Christian Zionism?
>>
>> Christian Zionism is a political movement, which originally descends from
>> a gravely radical element of Protestantism. They mostly live abroad,
>> particularly, in the United states, and they are theologically motivated
>> by the christian zionist notorious influence.  They predominantly believe
>> in the literal interpretation of the Bible. And, they derive a bitter
>> notion, based on that particular doctrinal tennet. Among the main founders
>> and key directors of this extremist movement, are Pastor John Hagee, the
>> radical evangelical Televangelist Pat Robertson, the fabricating author,
>> Robert Spencer with his awful companion, the liar Pamela Geller, and
>> finally, the heavily prevaricator and eternally expelled ex Coptic Father,
>> zakaria botros. Due to his stubborn profanity and inflammatory remarks, he
>> was permanently banned from the Coptic Church. I personally verified that
>> with local coptic officials. He was eternally banished from the Church for
>> his shameful misbehaviors and verbal assaults. He is now a radical
>> Protestant apologist, currently inhabits the United states.    Formerly,
>> he used to be an actor at the Church. He currently lives in the United
>> states, and he is in a regular communication with the radical missionaries
>> I just listed above. He is quite popular for his anti-islam views, his
>> affirmative discourtesy, his dishonourable statements,     his intentional
>> misquotes, misinterpretations, and acrimonious corruptions of Islamic
>> text. Well for instance, he wickedly insulted muslim women who wear Hijab.
>> He sarcastically described them them as the darken tents. He said horrible
>> things about our noble prophet, (salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam), and he
>> wickedly abused his wives.   He deliberately devises the meaning which
>> helps him to forge, to develop and promote an assaulting propaganda about
>> Islamic teachings.   Well however, his malefactor   equivocations were
>> informatively countered, substantially refuted and invalidated by Doctor
>> Fadel Solomon, along with many other prominent muslim clerics.  Well
>> ordinarily, such hateful pastors and apologists are quite known for their
>> enormously provocative disposition about Islam. They strongly adhere a
>> Zionist agenda, and it's their top priority to advocate for guarding
>> Israel national security. They constantly call for that in the Congress,
>> and in another major domestic political assemblies in the United states.
>> Furthermore, they strenuously exert their efforts, to essentially invoke
>> theological suspicions among muslim masses. I was previously asked by
>> couple of christian Zionists, to watch Zakaria botros episodes about
>> Islam. One of them is an Arab, and another one is American. I would like
>> to thank them pretty much for their sincere advice. They just helped me
>> exposing to the publicity who Zakaria botros is. They never searched who
>> is Zakaria Botros , nor they never bothered themselves to just verify
>> whether he was theologically certified to talk about Islam the way he
>> does. They just liked the fact, that he appears in the television,
>> assaulting Islam, and posing incorrect alegations about Islamic sources.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Little that they know about the so called Zakaria botros religious
>> bigotry, his malicious intent, and his terrific perfidy to his egyptian
>> identity. He calls Egypt a terrorist state, wavering that notion to those
>> who he may be in touch with at the Congress, while attempting to encourage
>> them to potentially label Egypt as a threatening entity, and to even
>> occupy Egypt militarily if that was necessary. He even insulted the coptic
>> Pope in Egypt. Moreover, it's overwhelmingly evidenced against him, that
>> he stands behind the nigrified curtains of innocence of muslims, the
>> detrimental film which sparked outrage and violence around the world.
>> Although, he doesn't directly appear at the front, but it is allegedly
>> leavened that he is actually behind the seen, and that all the
>> reprehensible concepts were actually inspired by his hateful views.
>> Is that your best role-model sir? Wow. Couldn't you just find any better?
>> I'm personally convinced that Zakaria botros and his assimilators are
>> tremendously inspired by a hidden plot, a deeply concealed Zionist agenda.
>> The coptic church is extremely commendable for formally disposing this
>> maligned hater. I would like his supporters to present their significant
>> evidence, that proves his exoneration if they have any. Furthermore, I
>> would kindly ask my respectful recipients, to just hit over to the
>> following URL:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.cufi.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Christians United for Israel. Or CUFI for short.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the official website of this lobby, which was founded by Pastor
>> Jhon Hagee. Many christian organizations in the United states today, are
>> utterly affiliated with that radical lobby. It?s largely sponsored by
>> Christian organizations and individuals around the country. You may tour
>> their website, and then, you may possibly ask yourself;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> What on earth a religious association has to do with political interests?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Why they would be affiliated with a lobby, that explicitly fundraises, to
>> supply Israel militarily?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I can present conspicuous evidents that substantially proves my
>> proclaimation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Christians United for Israel is the largest Christian lobby in the United
>> states, which essentially advocates for Christian sustainable alignment
>> with the state of Israel. In their annual summit of 2012, Netanyahu was
>> the keynote speaker for this particular convention.
>>
>> Here you go:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqgDKbGUdT0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kindly, can someone explain to me, what does that mean?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The major essence of this Christian dispensationalism is of its political
>> apostasy. They label Islam as their common enemy in spades.
>>
>>
>>
>> You may watch this.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODwSdugsvJg
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, how can we determine whether someone is a Christian Zionist or not?
>>
>>
>>
>> What do we need to examine?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, at its inception, we need to verify, whether someone or his Church
>> congregation are affiliated with any significant assets in Israel.
>>
>>
>>
>> Secondly, we need to verify whether someone or his Church congregation are
>> radically assaulting Islam, considering it as a major threat.
>>
>>
>>
>>   Furthermore, we need to verify whether someone or his Church
>> congregation are publishing hateful materials about Islam, Muslims, and
>> Muslim countries.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am skeptic of using the compound term, the middle east. Because it?s an
>> Israeli recognition.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are many Christian Zionist websites and online publications.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well amongst them are:
>>
>>
>>
>> faithfreedom.org, jihadwatch.org, muslimhope.org, and the list goes on.
>>
>> Well, I am sharing this to essentially expand the mass awareness and
>> consciousness about religious extremism.
>>
>>
>>
>> As I am intensely against the brotherhood religious extremism, I am also
>> against the Christian religious extremism.
>>
>>
>>
>> If any religious denomination decided to highjack its faith, to use it in
>> gaining political aims, that would probably be considered as Zionism.
>>
>>
>>
>> Zionism is a broadly controversial term, it reflects a negative
>> connotation, and in my humble opinion, it hasn?t yet been accurately
>> defined.
>>
>>
>>
>>       Do you want to know what the term Zionist actually means?
>>
>>
>>
>> Listen to its principles layed out by a former Zionist figure, Benjamin
>> Freedman.
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin Freedman has given a bravely patriotic speech to his nation in
>> 1961.
>>
>>
>>
>> He warned them about the threat of growing Zionism.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A2Nc8Fjx2k
>>
>>
>>
>> Zionism is any faithful movement, which trespasses the religious tennets
>> of its denomination,  to essentially attain political ambitions, or
>> financial global dominance.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Zionist Jews and Christians are influentially imposing their eminent
>> authority onto the decision making arena in the United states.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is not a secret for sure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Whilst it?s not something to veil, many Americans unfortunately, are
>> perfectly deceived and disinformed.
>>
>>
>>
>> My post hasn?t been intended to denounce or to desecrate someone?s faith.
>>
>>
>>
>> To the contrary, I just intended to widespread awareness and enlightenment
>> to my friends.
>>
>>
>>
>> Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, they all are sharing common
>> fundamentals, and they all are advocating for tolerance and deference.
>>
>>
>>
>> We may all agree or disagree on certain theological concepts but, what I
>> am warning about is totally of a different story.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am warning about a political apostasy, which commits  atrocities in the
>> name of the divine.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope I haven?t offended anyone.
>>
>>
>>
>> My post is intended to address the difference in between religious
>> devotion and, the vicious   defection which aims to gain political
>> interest, throughout misusing religious symbols.
>>
>>
>>
>> There could be Zionist Jews, Christian Zionists, or even, Muslim Zionists
>> for that matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, definitely.
>>
>>
>>
>> And this is why we rejected the brotherhood ruling Egypt.
>>
>>
>>
>> Because they were misusing religious symbols, for essentially dominating
>> Egyptians, tiredly restricting them, and invalidly speaking on God?s
>> behalf.
>>
>>
>>
>> I personally consider Iran as a Zionist Muslim state.
>>
>>
>>
>> The United states is a Zionist Christian state.
>>
>>
>>
>> Israel, is a Zionist Jewish state.
>>
>>
>>
>> They all highjack religious fundamentals for political gains.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a turning point.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Zionism is the major threat to the whole world.
>>
>>
>>
>> Zionism is the major source of religious extremism in all religions, which
>> nourishes radicalism, terrorism, and atrocity.
>>
>> I quite recognize the Christian Zionist pestiferous influence on American
>> media.
>>
>> These people ought to be firmly stood against.
>>
>> They label Islam as their major threat, and they constantly promote
>> poisonous thoughts about Islam.
>>
>> They are unified with the racial state of Israel.
>>
>> I challenge the Christian dispensationalism and   Apocalyptic Rapture
>> theologians to just criticize Israel.
>>
>> I will never get tired of speaking at this subject, over, and over again.
>>
>> I will constantly warn Americans, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, and everyone
>> else of this eminent threat.
>>
>> Christian Zionism is even more dangerous than Jewish Zionism.
>>
>> They misuse religious symbles to deceive their audience.
>>
>> Please, it doesn?t matter where do you live in the world.
>>
>> It doesn?t matter who you are, or what?s your religion.
>>
>> You must recognize, that Christian Zionist Evangelists are persistently
>> supporting the state of Israel, whilst utterlly dismissing the plainly
>> insensate atrocities, which Israel commits on a daily basis against
>> Palestinian civilians, either they were Muslims, or Christians.
>>    In addition, Christian Zionist Evangelists tolerate roket strikes,
>> Neuclar bombing of Palestinian civil means, as long as that justifys
>> expanding the settlement construction of Israel military occupation.
>>
>> Christian Zionist Evangelists encourage nourishing the radical sense and
>> sectarian strife among Muslims and Christians in mostly populated Muslim
>> countries, to justify the foreign intervension to defy the fraudulently
>> proclaimed religious persecution   which they emphatically fabricate.
>>
>>   Christian Zionism is not a myth.
>>
>> The real myth is to attempt denying its existence and its effective
>> presence onto the United states political rhetoric.
>>
>> Please, don?t think I am exaggerating.
>>
>> Help me spreading the cautionary sentiment, warning the people about the
>> Christian Zionist influential authority.
>> If you were a Christian, and you attempted to somehow belittle the
>> subject?s substantial enormity, I am afraid that I will have to consider
>> you involved, or influenced by this political ideology.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/timothyclarkmusic%40me.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:10:03 -0500
> From: "Paul" <oilofgladness47 at gmail.com>
> To: <myfriendlyfamily at lists.varietyradio.org>
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Daily Thought for Friday, November 15, 2013
> Message-ID: <86AC7D66DB624A4D93984FE2E52A9433 at paul>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello and good day to you all.  I hope that your day is going well.
>
> Before I begin the Daily Thought article for today, I have a big favor to
> ask all of you.  Some of you may not know the person about to be mentioned,
> but many more of you do, so here goes.
>
> Pastor Thomas Williamson of Jackson MS, current God-led administrator of
> seasons-of-refreshing.net Inc., was admitted to hospital today.  As of this
> writing I don't know what for, but please keep this Godly man in your
> prayers.  On behalf of him and his wife Linda, thanks for your prayers, as I
> know they will be appreciated.  Linda is on dialysis, and I don't know if
> she was able to go for her Friday treatment, as she recently became blind.
> Hopefully she was able to make it.  Again thanks for your prayers and your
> understanding in this matter.
>
> And now we have a rather interesting Thanksgiving article which I hope you
> will like.  It's entitled "Through My Window, An Authentic Thanksgiving," by
> an author whose name is not given, but it is rendered as follows:
>
> Not so long ago, I thought it would be a fine idea to have a really
> authentic Thanksgiving.  It would be just like that first Thanksgiving, with
> all the wonderful things we have come to love and cherish as traditional.
>
> My husband wasn't really geared up for my foray into the past but suggested
> that the tradition of Thanksgiving Day football probably had its roots in
> the original holiday and should, therefore, be perpetuated at our annual
> event, as well.  I was pretty sure the Pilgrims and Indians didn't toss
> around the pigskin, but I told him I'd check.  So I set out on my quest to
> recreate that first memorable Thanksgiving feast celebrated by our stalwart
> Pilgrim ancestors almost four centuries ago.
>
> My initial discovery was that the first Thanksgiving really wasn't.  It was
> a harvest feast all right, but, when the conservative Protestant Pilgrims
> talked about Thanksgiving, they meant a religious time of fasting and
> prayer.  That big feast they had in 1621 was more of a celebration that they
> had survived the first year and an acknowledgement that they had God to
> thank for it.  And the idea that the Pilgrims fixed dinner for a few
> visiting Indians was not quite right either.  The real story is that there
> were almost twice as many Native Americans as Pilgrims and the Wampanoags
> brought most of the food! According to the accounts of the event written by
> Governor William Bradford, several of the Pilgrim men provided wild ducks
> and geese they had shot, but it was the Indian hunters who brought along
> five deer to feed the crowd.  In case you were wondering about mashed
> potatoes and gravy, you can forget that, too.  Potatoes had only recently
> been "discovered" by the English, and most of them still considered the
> tubers poisonous.  They did have pumpkins, but not the big, fat, orange kind
> we have today, and certainly no pies.  Their flour had run out and there was
> no milk, cows being conspicuously absent from Plymouth.  They did have an
> abundance of fish, however, along with eels, lobster and clams.  I didn't
> have to wonder what my family would think about sitting down to a feast of
> savory Thanksgiving eels.  Cranberries were few and far between too, and
> fresh veggies were limited to watercress, boiled squash and beans.  No
> fluffy Parker House rolls either--just some fried bread made from ground
> corn.
>
> The longer my research continued, the shorter my menu became.  And then I
> made a most interesting discovery.  By the time of this harvest feast--most
> likely in the early fall of 1621--there were only four adult women left in
> the Pilgrim band.  That meant that, at this feast for fifty English settlers
> and ninety Indians, the men folk must have helped with the cooking.  The
> menu might be disappointing, but this new wrinkle in the meal preparation
> cheered me right up.
>
> That is, until I found out that the feast wasn't just a Thursday afternoon
> event.  It appears the festivities continued for three days.  This gives the
> term "leftovers" a whole new meaning! What do you do with 150 guests that
> just won't leave? Well, it seems my husband was right.  They played sports.
> Of course, it wasn't a hotly contested football game between the Lions and
> the Packers, but there were sharp-shooting contests with arrows and muskets,
> some ballgames, and a footrace or two.
>
> With every new discovery, I became more disenchanted.  Pilgrims didn't dress
> all in black and there were no starched white collars and certainly no
> damask cloths on long wooden tables lined with chairs.  And it wasn't even
> in November! I was flirting with serious disillusionment when I stumbled
> upon something else I didn't expect.  This harvest celebration wasn't an
> idea unique to the Plymouth Pilgrims.  The Native Americans had long
> celebrated the ingathering of their crops with feasts.  This was a cultural
> occasion crossing lines of race and religion.  The tradition of Thanksgiving
> was tied neither to recipes nor specific activities, but to the common
> spirit of humanity that longs to express gratitude to the One who provides
> and protects.
>
> And that's when I realized that my Thanksgiving could be authentic after
> all.  So I roasted my turkey and mashed my potatoes.  I simmered my gravy,
> smothered my sweet potatoes in brown sugar, gelled my cranberries, and baked
> my pumpkin pies.  And when we sat down to dinner, just as our ancestors have
> done for hundreds of years, we joined hands and thanked God, our Creator,
> for the blessings of provision and protection.  We laughed and reminisced
> about good friends and favorite family memories.
>
> And when the meal had ended, while the women cleaned up the kitchen and
> packed away tasty leftovers, our male Pilgrims and braves gathered around
> the glow of the television to celebrate the traditional conclusion of any
> authentic Thanksgiving sporting contest between two worthy opponents!
>
> And there you have it for today.  So much for a traditional authentic
> Thanksgiving Day celebration and get-together.  Of course, we can do that
> without all the expense and work of preparing a meal, and that is to thank
> Almighty God in our hearts for His blessings and provisions each day.  As
> many of you may recall in one of my early quotes, why do we ask the Lord for
> more "things" or blessings when we're not thankfully grateful for what He
> has provided? Something to think about in this day and age.
>
> And now may the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob just keep us safe,
> individually and collectively, in these last days in which we live.  Lord
> willing will have another Daily Thought message for tomorrow.  Your
> Christian friend and brother, Paul
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 04:39:44 +0200
> From: "Mostafa" <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com>
> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
> Subject: [Faith-talk] Origin of the Trinity.
> Message-ID: <0A735D7D1E91459E9CBE7C98C8C3DD41 at Win7PC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1256"
>
> Dear all, upon you be peace and blessings. Today, we God willing are
> proceeding to what we have previously commenced.
>
> Who Invented the Trinity?
>
> The three monotheistic religions - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - all
> purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme
> Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. Known as monotheism in
> Islam, this concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a
> Biblical passage known as the "Shema" or the Jewish creed of faith: "Hear, O
> Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4).
>
> It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when
> he said: ?The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our
> God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29).
>
> Muhammad, salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam, came along approximately 600 years
> later, bringing the same message of monotheism: "And your God is One God:
> There is no God but He," (The Qur'an 2:163).
>
> Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God, however,
> into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during the fourth
> century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of controversy both
> within and without the Christian religion, is known as the Doctrine of the
> Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity states that God
> is the union of three divine persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy
> Spirit - in one divine being.
>
> If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery language
> in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the matter:
>
> "We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity. for there is one
> Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all
> one. they are not three gods, but one God. the whole three persons are
> co-eternal and co-equal. he therefore that will be save must thus think of
> the Trinity" (excerptions. I already presented to you the major essence of
> the Trinitarian doctrine, Jhon 1-5-7, and I established the decisive
> evidents of deliberately omitting the text. You can go ahead and verify
> that. You may possibly would like to look at the passage of Jhon 1-5-7 in
> King James version, and at the same particular passage, in any later English
> translation. In a previous post, I discussed the Trinitarian doctrine
> theologically and I shared a lengthy well written essay, which discussed it
> historically. Ah by the way, I coppied that lengthy article from the website
> of the United Church of God. You don?t have to believe me, or to trust my
> words. As for some of you they would like to think I am a liar. I just want
> you to go ahead and verify my claims yourself. In today?s post, I would God
> willing continue on discussing the Trinitarian doctrine theologically,
> historically, and from the rational standpoint simultaneously. Of course, I
> am not carefully choosing my words while criticising. So please bear in your
> mind; that my words are going to be intensely explicit. Let's put this
> together in a different form: one person, God the Father + one person, God
> the Son + one person, God the Holy Ghost = one person, God the What? Is this
> English or is this gibberish? It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who
> formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter,
> the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.
>
> How did such a confusing doctrine get its start?
>
> Trinity in the Bible.
>
> References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.
>
> In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach
> to all nations. While the "Great Commission" does make mention of the three
> persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase ?Baptizing
> them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost"
> is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text - that is, not the actual
> words of Jesus - as can be seen by two factors:
>
> Baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done
> only in the name of Jesus; and
> The "Great Commission" found in the first gospel written, that of Mark,
> bears no mention of Father, Son and, or Holy Ghost - see Mark 16:15.
>
> The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the
> Epistle of I John 5:7, Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted
> that the phrase ?there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the
> Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one?. is definitely a "later
> addition" to Biblical test, and it is not found in any of today's versions
> of the Bible. It was intentionally omitted, as we have previously
> discussed.
>
> It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings
> was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This
> doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely
> man-made in origin.
>
> The Doctrine Takes Shape
>
> While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true
> founder of Christianity, has formulated many of its doctrines, that of the
> Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such
> when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a "divine Son." After all, a Son
> does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God's revelations to man?
> In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church
> people who put the matter together.
>
> Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage,
> was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that
> the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one
> being of substance with the Father. A Formal Doctrine is Drawn Up
>
> When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two
> church men from Alexandria - Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop -
> Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.
>
> Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize that
> a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation failed
> to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical council
> in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.
>
> Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the doctrine
> of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was now seen as
> having three characters, Church Puts Its Foot Down
>
> The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on the
> part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man named
> Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed was being
> signed; "Arianism" became a catch-word from that time onward for anyone who
> did not hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.
>
> It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of
> the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate
> on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was
> now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from
> mutilation to mortality. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and
> slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.
>
> Debate Continues
>
> Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the
> doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even
> today.
>
> or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The
> majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of
> their faith, can offer nothing more than "I believe it because I was told to
> do so." It is explained away as "mystery" - yet the Bible says in I
> Corinthians 14:33 that "God is not the author of confusion?. The Unitarian
> denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in saying
> that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result, mainstream
> Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has refused
> their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that Christians
> will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: ?Thou shalt worship the Lord
> thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve?. (Luke 4:8.) Islam and the Matter of
> the Trinity
>
> While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is
> not the case in Islam.
>
> "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there is
> no god except One God." (Qur'an 5:73). It is worth noting that the Arabic
> language Bible uses the name "Allah" as the name of God.
>
> Suzanne Haneef, in her book WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND
> MUSLIMS (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when she
> says, "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into three
> thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses three
> parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being which God
> is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp. 183-184).
>
> Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being three
> separate entities - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God is the
> Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself because He
> is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.
>
> Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has
> as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the
> Trinity - God being Three-in-One - is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism.
> Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.
>
> This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn,
> accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out
> that the Qur'an sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his
> mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church
> since 431 when she was given the title "Mother of God" by the Council of
> Ephesus, a closer examination of the verse in the Qur'an (5:116). most often
> cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the
> designation of Mary by the Qur'an as a "member" of the Trinity, is simply
> not true.
>
> While the Qur'an condemns both trinitarianism, (the Qur'an 4:17) and the
> worship of Jesus and his mother Mary, (the Qur'an 5:116), nowhere does it
> identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position
> of the Qur'an is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important;
> what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against
> the concept of One God.
>
> In particularly, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept
> conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be
> found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of
> divine beings has no place in monotheism.
> Allah says in the Koran, ; Indeed, I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore,
> serve Me (and no other)?.
>
>       (Qur'an 21:92).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Now, I will discuss the Trinitarian doctrinal tennet, in further details.
>
> I will use the philosophical argument to substantiate my assertion.
>
> As you may know, I am a linguist by hobby. Therefore, I may define the both
> concepts of monotheism and polytheism from the roughly etymological
> standpoint.
>
> What does monotheism mean?
>
> Etymologically, the word monotheism actually means the belief of a single
> God.
>
> >From this lingual root, we may consistently derive the noun and adjective,
> monotheistic. The monotheistic is the one who believes that there is only
> one God. Apparently, Jews, Christians, and Muslims seems to have a
> theological agreement on that regard. Subsequently, it comes the opposite
> concept of several gods which is called, polytheism.
>
> I will be quite unfair if I claimed that christians are strictly
> polytheistic. They actually are not. But, they are not perfectly
> monotheistic either, and I am going to rationally justify my theological
> remonstration with the christian doctrine.
>
> According to my humble apprehension, christians believe in the union of the
> Father and Son and Holy Ghost simultaneously, so they are three in a one
> godhead. Of course, you may correct me if I was mistaken.
>
> If we critically compared that to what we have in Islam, we will instantly
> recognize the clear difference.
>
> We believe in God as the one. He is one in a unique sense, glory be to Him.
>
>
> So the christian monotheism has a vital problem. In giving respect to the
> unique oneness of the godhead entity, God is not to be physically analogous,
> he is unequaled, quintessentially unparalleled. The godhead entity in
> Christianity is physically structured. And my presented proof at this point,
> that christians tend to analogize within what they believe in, with other
> physical depictions. So for instance, they tend to say, the trinity is
> similar to an egg, or an apple.
>
> I am not sure though, in what sense such comparison was made? Is it just for
> clarification?
>
> I will consider it to be intended for that aim.
>
> Well still, we didn't solve the problem.
>
> God is physically structured in christianity.
>
> Well, I am enormously felicitous to share our devout certitude and placid
> temperament about God.
>
> We sincerely believe that God is predominantly unparalleled.
>
> It's said that both religions are claiming to be of a monotheistic
> posterity. Well, we're going to accurately reassess that proposition, so you
> can see and decide for yourself.
>
> Well, here we go.
>
> Firstly; in Christianity, God is incarnated. In contrast to that, God is
> gloriously transcendent in Islam.
>
> Secondly; God is physically depicted in Christianity. He is structured, a
> divided deity. It consists of three major individuals of the godhead. The
> father, the son, and the holy ghost. Those three are unified into one,
> according to Christianity.
>
> But, it's absolutely contrived, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is
> not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit, is indeed not the Father.
>
> Noone is the other one.
>
> In contrast to that, and according to Islamic doctrinal tenets, God is
> enormously resplendent. He is the one, in a distinctly unique sense. He is
> absolutely incomparable. He is not to be represented into any materialized
> objects. He is not in His creation. He is self-sufficient, and He doesn't
> demand any third party to forgive or punish. It's all up to His will and
> wisdom, glory be to Him.
>
> Thirdly; according to Christianity, God bequeathed to bear a son. He
> sacrificed him, to bestow His grace.
>
> In contrast to that, God has sent messengers and prophets to humanity, and
> he never sacrificed anyone to bestow His grace.
>
> Though the concept of sacrifice is presented in Islam, but it isn't as it is
> in Christianity.
>
> The sacrifice of Islam expresses the submission and obedience to God's
> commandments on His terms, and it's done by us, His slaves and servants.
>
> Well, I may have a question at this point:
>
> Why can't God forgive us, unless he sacrifices his son?
>
> And how he can't forgive before sacrificing, and after he sacrifices, he is
> able to forgive.
>
> Can God have two different standards of justice?
>
> To heavenly sacrifice that who is innocent for the sake of the guilty. But
> on earth, you don't approve that in your courts, do you?
>
> Well, God is vitally contradicting himself at this point.
>
> Why?
>
> Well simply because, he has two different principles of forgiveness.
>
> The heavenly concept of forgiveness says; sacrifice that who is innocent for
> the sake of the guilty. Sacrifice the righteous for the sake of the sinner.
>
>
> While the earthly statute legality decisively states, that you can't
> sacrifice that who is innocent, to survive who is guilty, and he deserves
> penalty. That sounds quite disputable.
>
> Well, I have a metaphorical enquiry. Was God's son begotten, or created?
> Please, pay a significant attention to the lingual distinctions of using the
> terms, create, and beget. Consult your competent dictionary, before you step
> in to give any answer. Well essentially,
>
> I'm aiming to unveil the clear differences. Christianity portrays God in
> materialized objects, and in the flesh.
>
> While Islam intently insists to present the magisterial transcendence of
> God.
>
> The main purpose of coordinating my theological discourse, is to have the
> knowledgeable adequacy of accurately comparing the concepts, and to
> correctly devise the genuine one.
>
>
>
>
>
> Of course, Christian Trinitarian Apologists today, are attempting to
> wickedly deceive their audience, by incorrectly implying, that Christians
> were initially Trinitarians.
>
> Christian answers of Austin Texas, directed by Larry Wessels, whereas, he
> attempts to viciously corrupt the facts.
>
> There are numerously independent sources, which theologically rebuttals the
> currently adopted Trinitarian faith, as well as, it intensely refutes the
> currently corrupted apprehension of Unitarianism.
>
> In the initial phase of the continuous doctrinal combat, in the early
> Christian era, there was Arius, the popular Christian cleric of Alexandria,
> who has courageously opposed the Trinitarian myth, he declined the divinity
> of Christ, and he had to persistently confront on theological asperities
> brutally imposed by Trinitarian upheaval.
>
> There are many unbiased, and theologically attested assertions, which
> verifys the religious persecutions on Arius and his followers, who were
> calling for sincere monotheism.
>
> Arianism, however, was a scornful  entitlement, which was forcefully imposed
> on Arius and his followers by the Trinitarian rivals, in attempting to
> implement, that Arius aims to constitute a separate denomination, which he
> prescribes its fundamental doctrinal tennets.
>
> Well, that?s not strange at all.
>
> There are many Christian evangelists nowadays, who fraudulently call Islam,
> Mohammedanism, Terrorism, Fascism, and so forth.
>
> That particular ism, doesn?t appear, but in Christianized evangelical
> hateful sentiments, or in orientalist literature, whilst attempting to
> poisonously spifflicate  the Islamic doctrine.
>
> Arius taught his followers, that in order to attain the pleasure of God
> Almighty, and to prosperously earn the salvation, you?re ought to
> unfeignedly believe in the oneness of God, and that Jesus is indeed his
> mightily chosen apostle.
>
> He vigorously fought against Trinitarianism. Therefore, he had to greatly
> suffer and endure the quite appallingly inflicted persecution practiced by
> Christian Trinitarians, until he was executed by Roman upper elites, in 450
> C.E.
>
> The subject of Arius and his affiliated herecy is vastly controversial. And
> in particular, in the contemporary Christian academia.
>
>  Christian Trinitarians are strenuously attempting to veil the truth by any
> manner.
>
>
>
> I have been accused by many of them, that I?m striving to subvert the
> genuine doctrine.
>
>
>
> But I?m afraid, it?s the Trinitarians who?re trying to wickedly corrupt the
> truth.
>
>
>
> For the Trinitarian Evangelist, it is quite important to keep his audience
> deceived and disinformed.
>
>
>
> In my previous post, I listed ten major factors which are to describe the
> attributions and characteristics of God.
>
>
>
> Afterwards; I asked my audience:
>
> Does anybody disagree on that?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:51:59 -0500
> From: Timothy Clark Music <timothyclarkmusic at me.com>
> To: "Faith-talk,	for the discussion of faith and religion"
> 	<faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Origin of the Trinity.
> Message-ID: <D7A1EEED-0A5B-48CB-934B-4AB5A8D5E0E1 at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256
>
> the trinity is a ligh.
>  see john 4:24. it clearly tells us god is a spirit. we?ve gone over this.
> jesus and god are all 1 as when jesus was born he had god?s spirit in him.
> there is only 1 being and that?s jesus christ.
> On Kislev 12, 5774 AM, at 21:39, Mostafa <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear all, upon you be peace and blessings. Today, we God willing are
>> proceeding to what we have previously commenced.
>>
>> Who Invented the Trinity?
>>
>> The three monotheistic religions - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - all
>> purport to share one fundamental concept: belief in God as the Supreme
>> Being, the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. Known as monotheism in
>> Islam, this concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a
>> Biblical passage known as the "Shema" or the Jewish creed of faith: "Hear,
>> O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4).
>>
>> It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when
>> he said: ?The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord
>> our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29).
>>
>> Muhammad, salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam, came along approximately 600
>> years later, bringing the same message of monotheism: "And your God is One
>> God: There is no God but He," (The Qur'an 2:163).
>>
>> Christianity has digressed from the concept of the Oneness of God,
>> however, into a vague and mysterious doctrine that was formulated during
>> the fourth century. This doctrine, which continues to be a source of
>> controversy both within and without the Christian religion, is known as
>> the Doctrine of the Trinity. Simply put, the Christian doctrine of the
>> Trinity states that God is the union of three divine persons - the Father,
>> the Son and the Holy Spirit - in one divine being.
>>
>> If that concept, put in basic terms, sounds confusing, the flowery
>> language in the actual text of the doctrine lends even more mystery to the
>> matter:
>>
>> "We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity. for there is one
>> Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all
>> one. they are not three gods, but one God. the whole three persons are
>> co-eternal and co-equal. he therefore that will be save must thus think of
>> the Trinity" (excerptions. I already presented to you the major essence of
>> the Trinitarian doctrine, Jhon 1-5-7, and I established the decisive
>> evidents of deliberately omitting the text. You can go ahead and verify
>> that. You may possibly would like to look at the passage of Jhon 1-5-7 in
>> King James version, and at the same particular passage, in any later
>> English translation. In a previous post, I discussed the Trinitarian
>> doctrine theologically and I shared a lengthy well written essay, which
>> discussed it historically. Ah by the way, I coppied that lengthy article
>> from the website of the United Church of God. You don?t have to believe
>> me, or to trust my words. As for some of you they would like to think I am
>> a liar. I just want you to go ahead and verify my claims yourself. In
>> today?s post, I would God willing continue on discussing the Trinitarian
>> doctrine theologically, historically, and from the rational standpoint
>> simultaneously. Of course, I am not carefully choosing my words while
>> criticising. So please bear in your mind; that my words are going to be
>> intensely explicit. Let's put this together in a different form: one
>> person, God the Father + one person, God the Son + one person, God the
>> Holy Ghost = one person, God the What? Is this English or is this
>> gibberish? It is said that Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this
>> doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable
>> he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.
>>
>> How did such a confusing doctrine get its start?
>>
>> Trinity in the Bible.
>>
>> References in the Bible to a Trinity of divine beings are vague, at best.
>>
>> In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach
>> to all nations. While the "Great Commission" does make mention of the
>> three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase
>> ?Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy
>> Ghost"
>> is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text - that is, not the actual
>> words of Jesus - as can be seen by two factors:
>>
>> Baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done
>> only in the name of Jesus; and
>> The "Great Commission" found in the first gospel written, that of Mark,
>> bears no mention of Father, Son and, or Holy Ghost - see Mark 16:15.
>>
>> The only other reference in the Bible to a Trinity can be found in the
>> Epistle of I John 5:7, Biblical scholars of today, however, have admitted
>> that the phrase ?there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father,
>> the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one?. is definitely a
>> "later addition" to Biblical test, and it is not found in any of today's
>> versions of the Bible. It was intentionally omitted, as we have previously
>> discussed.
>>
>> It can, therefore, be seen that the concept of a Trinity of divine beings
>> was not an idea put forth by Jesus or any other prophet of God. This
>> doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely
>> man-made in origin.
>>
>> The Doctrine Takes Shape
>>
>> While Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true
>> founder of Christianity, has formulated many of its doctrines, that of the
>> Trinity was not among them. He did, however, lay the groundwork for such
>> when he put forth the idea of Jesus being a "divine Son." After all, a Son
>> does need a Father, and what about a vehicle for God's revelations to man?
>> In essence, Paul named the principal players, but it was the later Church
>> people who put the matter together.
>>
>> Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in
>> Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the
>> theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but
>> all are of one being of substance with the Father. A Formal Doctrine is
>> Drawn Up
>>
>> When controversy over the matter of the Trinity blew up in 318 between two
>> church men from Alexandria - Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop
>> - Emperor Constantine stepped into the fray.
>>
>> Although Christian dogma was a complete mystery to him, he did realize
>> that a unified church was necessary for a strong kingdom. When negotiation
>> failed to settle the dispute, Constantine called for the first ecumenical
>> council in Church history in order to settle the matter once and for all.
>>
>> Six weeks after the 300 bishops first gathered at Nicea in 325, the
>> doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out. The God of the Christians was
>> now seen as having three characters, Church Puts Its Foot Down
>>
>> The matter was far from settled, however, despite high hopes for such on
>> the part of Constantine. Arius and the new bishop of Alexandria, a man
>> named Athanasius, began arguing over the matter even as the Nicene Creed
>> was being signed; "Arianism" became a catch-word from that time onward for
>> anyone who did not hold to the doctrine of the Trinity.
>>
>> It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval
>> of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative.
>> Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the
>> Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that
>> ranged from mutilation to mortality. Christians now turned on Christians,
>> maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.
>>
>> Debate Continues
>>
>> Brutal punishments and even death did not stop the controversy over the
>> doctrine of the Trinity, however, and the said controversy continues even
>> today.
>>
>> or natures, in the form of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The
>> majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of
>> their faith, can offer nothing more than "I believe it because I was told
>> to do so." It is explained away as "mystery" - yet the Bible says in I
>> Corinthians 14:33 that "God is not the author of confusion?. The Unitarian
>> denomination of Christianity has kept alive the teachings of Arius in
>> saying that God is one; they do not believe in the Trinity. As a result,
>> mainstream Christians abhor them, and the National Council of Churches has
>> refused their admittance. In Unitarianism, the hope is kept alive that
>> Christians will someday return to the preachings of Jesus: ?Thou shalt
>> worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve?. (Luke 4:8.)
>> Islam and the Matter of the Trinity
>>
>> While Christianity may have a problem defining the essence of God, such is
>> not the case in Islam.
>>
>> "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity, for there
>> is no god except One God." (Qur'an 5:73). It is worth noting that the
>> Arabic language Bible uses the name "Allah" as the name of God.
>>
>> Suzanne Haneef, in her book WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ISLAM AND
>> MUSLIMS (Library of Islam, 1985), puts the matter quite succinctly when
>> she says, "But God is not like a pie or an apple which can be divided into
>> three thirds which form one whole; if God is three persons or possesses
>> three parts, He is assuredly not the Single, Unique, Indivisible Being
>> which God is and which Christianity professes to believe in." (pp.
>> 183-184).
>>
>> Looking at it from another angle, the Trinity designates God as being
>> three separate entities - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. If God
>> is the Father and also the Son, He would then be the Father of Himself
>> because He is His own Son. This is not exactly logical.
>>
>> Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however,
>> has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of
>> the Trinity - God being Three-in-One - is seen by Islam as a form of
>> polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.
>>
>> This is a charge not taken lightly by Christians, however. They, in turn,
>> accuse the Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out
>> that the Qur'an sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary
>> his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic
>> Church since 431 when she was given the title "Mother of God" by the
>> Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verse in the Qur'an
>> (5:116). most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation,
>> shows that the designation of Mary by the Qur'an as a "member" of the
>> Trinity, is simply not true.
>>
>> While the Qur'an condemns both trinitarianism, (the Qur'an 4:17) and the
>> worship of Jesus and his mother Mary, (the Qur'an 5:116), nowhere does it
>> identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The
>> position of the Qur'an is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not
>> important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an
>> affront against the concept of One God.
>>
>> In particularly, we see that the doctrine of the Trinity is a concept
>> conceived entirely by man; there is no sanction whatsoever from God to be
>> found regarding the matter simply because the whole idea of a Trinity of
>> divine beings has no place in monotheism.
>> Allah says in the Koran, ; Indeed, I am your Lord and Cherisher:
>> therefore, serve Me (and no other)?.
>>
>>      (Qur'an 21:92).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, I will discuss the Trinitarian doctrinal tennet, in further details.
>>
>> I will use the philosophical argument to substantiate my assertion.
>>
>> As you may know, I am a linguist by hobby. Therefore, I may define the
>> both concepts of monotheism and polytheism from the roughly etymological
>> standpoint.
>>
>> What does monotheism mean?
>>
>> Etymologically, the word monotheism actually means the belief of a single
>> God.
>>
>> From this lingual root, we may consistently derive the noun and adjective,
>> monotheistic. The monotheistic is the one who believes that there is only
>> one God. Apparently, Jews, Christians, and Muslims seems to have a
>> theological agreement on that regard. Subsequently, it comes the opposite
>> concept of several gods which is called, polytheism.
>>
>> I will be quite unfair if I claimed that christians are strictly
>> polytheistic. They actually are not. But, they are not perfectly
>> monotheistic either, and I am going to rationally justify my theological
>> remonstration with the christian doctrine.
>>
>> According to my humble apprehension, christians believe in the union of
>> the Father and Son and Holy Ghost simultaneously, so they are three in a
>> one godhead. Of course, you may correct me if I was mistaken.
>>
>> If we critically compared that to what we have in Islam, we will instantly
>> recognize the clear difference.
>>
>> We believe in God as the one. He is one in a unique sense, glory be to
>> Him.
>>
>> So the christian monotheism has a vital problem. In giving respect to the
>> unique oneness of the godhead entity, God is not to be physically
>> analogous, he is unequaled, quintessentially unparalleled. The godhead
>> entity in Christianity is physically structured. And my presented proof at
>> this point, that christians tend to analogize within what they believe in,
>> with other physical depictions. So for instance, they tend to say, the
>> trinity is similar to an egg, or an apple.
>>
>> I am not sure though, in what sense such comparison was made? Is it just
>> for clarification?
>>
>> I will consider it to be intended for that aim.
>>
>> Well still, we didn't solve the problem.
>>
>> God is physically structured in christianity.
>>
>> Well, I am enormously felicitous to share our devout certitude and placid
>> temperament about God.
>>
>> We sincerely believe that God is predominantly unparalleled.
>>
>> It's said that both religions are claiming to be of a monotheistic
>> posterity. Well, we're going to accurately reassess that proposition, so
>> you can see and decide for yourself.
>>
>> Well, here we go.
>>
>> Firstly; in Christianity, God is incarnated. In contrast to that, God is
>> gloriously transcendent in Islam.
>>
>> Secondly; God is physically depicted in Christianity. He is structured, a
>> divided deity. It consists of three major individuals of the godhead. The
>> father, the son, and the holy ghost. Those three are unified into one,
>> according to Christianity.
>>
>> But, it's absolutely contrived, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is
>> not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit, is indeed not the Father.
>>
>> Noone is the other one.
>>
>> In contrast to that, and according to Islamic doctrinal tenets, God is
>> enormously resplendent. He is the one, in a distinctly unique sense. He is
>> absolutely incomparable. He is not to be represented into any materialized
>> objects. He is not in His creation. He is self-sufficient, and He doesn't
>> demand any third party to forgive or punish. It's all up to His will and
>> wisdom, glory be to Him.
>>
>> Thirdly; according to Christianity, God bequeathed to bear a son. He
>> sacrificed him, to bestow His grace.
>>
>> In contrast to that, God has sent messengers and prophets to humanity, and
>> he never sacrificed anyone to bestow His grace.
>>
>> Though the concept of sacrifice is presented in Islam, but it isn't as it
>> is in Christianity.
>>
>> The sacrifice of Islam expresses the submission and obedience to God's
>> commandments on His terms, and it's done by us, His slaves and servants.
>>
>> Well, I may have a question at this point:
>>
>> Why can't God forgive us, unless he sacrifices his son?
>>
>> And how he can't forgive before sacrificing, and after he sacrifices, he
>> is able to forgive.
>>
>> Can God have two different standards of justice?
>>
>> To heavenly sacrifice that who is innocent for the sake of the guilty. But
>> on earth, you don't approve that in your courts, do you?
>>
>> Well, God is vitally contradicting himself at this point.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Well simply because, he has two different principles of forgiveness.
>>
>> The heavenly concept of forgiveness says; sacrifice that who is innocent
>> for the sake of the guilty. Sacrifice the righteous for the sake of the
>> sinner.
>>
>> While the earthly statute legality decisively states, that you can't
>> sacrifice that who is innocent, to survive who is guilty, and he deserves
>> penalty. That sounds quite disputable.
>>
>> Well, I have a metaphorical enquiry. Was God's son begotten, or created?
>> Please, pay a significant attention to the lingual distinctions of using
>> the terms, create, and beget. Consult your competent dictionary, before
>> you step in to give any answer. Well essentially,
>>
>> I'm aiming to unveil the clear differences. Christianity portrays God in
>> materialized objects, and in the flesh.
>>
>> While Islam intently insists to present the magisterial transcendence of
>> God.
>>
>> The main purpose of coordinating my theological discourse, is to have the
>> knowledgeable adequacy of accurately comparing the concepts, and to
>> correctly devise the genuine one.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course, Christian Trinitarian Apologists today, are attempting to
>> wickedly deceive their audience, by incorrectly implying, that Christians
>> were initially Trinitarians.
>>
>> Christian answers of Austin Texas, directed by Larry Wessels, whereas, he
>> attempts to viciously corrupt the facts.
>>
>> There are numerously independent sources, which theologically rebuttals
>> the currently adopted Trinitarian faith, as well as, it intensely refutes
>> the currently corrupted apprehension of Unitarianism.
>>
>> In the initial phase of the continuous doctrinal combat, in the early
>> Christian era, there was Arius, the popular Christian cleric of
>> Alexandria, who has courageously opposed the Trinitarian myth, he declined
>> the divinity of Christ, and he had to persistently confront on theological
>> asperities brutally imposed by Trinitarian upheaval.
>>
>> There are many unbiased, and theologically attested assertions, which
>> verifys the religious persecutions on Arius and his followers, who were
>> calling for sincere monotheism.
>>
>> Arianism, however, was a scornful  entitlement, which was forcefully
>> imposed on Arius and his followers by the Trinitarian rivals, in
>> attempting to implement, that Arius aims to constitute a separate
>> denomination, which he prescribes its fundamental doctrinal tennets.
>>
>> Well, that?s not strange at all.
>>
>> There are many Christian evangelists nowadays, who fraudulently call
>> Islam, Mohammedanism, Terrorism, Fascism, and so forth.
>>
>> That particular ism, doesn?t appear, but in Christianized evangelical
>> hateful sentiments, or in orientalist literature, whilst attempting to
>> poisonously spifflicate  the Islamic doctrine.
>>
>> Arius taught his followers, that in order to attain the pleasure of God
>> Almighty, and to prosperously earn the salvation, you?re ought to
>> unfeignedly believe in the oneness of God, and that Jesus is indeed his
>> mightily chosen apostle.
>>
>> He vigorously fought against Trinitarianism. Therefore, he had to greatly
>> suffer and endure the quite appallingly inflicted persecution practiced by
>> Christian Trinitarians, until he was executed by Roman upper elites, in
>> 450 C.E.
>>
>> The subject of Arius and his affiliated herecy is vastly controversial.
>> And in particular, in the contemporary Christian academia.
>>
>> Christian Trinitarians are strenuously attempting to veil the truth by any
>> manner.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been accused by many of them, that I?m striving to subvert the
>> genuine doctrine.
>>
>>
>>
>> But I?m afraid, it?s the Trinitarians who?re trying to wickedly corrupt
>> the truth.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the Trinitarian Evangelist, it is quite important to keep his audience
>> deceived and disinformed.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my previous post, I listed ten major factors which are to describe the
>> attributions and characteristics of God.
>>
>>
>>
>> Afterwards; I asked my audience:
>>
>> Does anybody disagree on that?
>>
>>
>>
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Best Wishs.
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