[Faith-talk] Original sin and salvation in Christianity and Islam.

[Poppa Bear]

Hello Mustafa, you forget this one other important atrabute of God, he is 
Just. You study this atrabute of God and then fit it into this argument 
pleas, then take some time to give a more balanced and informed response or 
you simply muddy up the waters of your own argument. Also, he didn't just 
die for some inherited sin, he died for actual sin that people have 
committed, consciously, willfully, "All have sinned and come short of God's 
Glory" and "No one is righteous, no not one," So it goes much deeper than 
you may understand looking from the outside in. Once a person feels the 
weight of their own sin, how heavy it is, how shameful it really feels, then 
a person can start to understand how pier the love that caused him to come 
down to this earth, leave his glory in heaven, and be tortured, nailed to a 
tree to remove the curse of death, the black stain of sin and take it up and 
bare it in all of its humiliation, pain, betrayal and suffering then you 
start to get a glimpse of the Christians hope in this great work of 
salvation.  I imagine you won't reply, but I am still giving you the benefit 
of the doubt.

Romans 11:    33Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of 
God!

       How unsearchable his judgments,

       and his paths beyond tracing out!

    34"Who has known the mind of the Lord?

       Or who has been his counselor?

    35"Who has ever given to God,

       that God should repay him?"

    36For from him and through him and to him are all things.

       To him be the glory forever! Amen.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mostafa" <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 8:34 PM
Subject: [Faith-talk] Original sin and salvation in Christianity and Islam.


>                        Dear all, upon you be peace and blessings.
>
> On today’s post, I would like to explain and illustrate the  concept of 
> original sin and salvation, in both Christianity and Islam.
>
> First; Original sin in Christianity.
>
> To simplify the concept, it is the sin of Adam and Eve and their eating 
> from the forbidden tree.
>
> This disobedience is considered as the original sin in Christianity.
>
> What do they believe?
>
>
> 1; They believe it was the first ever committed sin.
>
> 2; It is consecutively inherited.
>
> 3; As a consequence to that, Jesus died on the cross to save the humanity 
> from its initially sinful nature. Or as Christian Apologists say to their 
> audience; He died for your sins.
>
> So, if I properly comprehend the concept, God has sent his son to die for 
> our sins. Is that correct?
>
> Well, if it’s so, then God is actually in trouble.
> He can’t atone the human inherited cynicism, unless he sheds the blood on 
> the cross.
>
> Isn’t that what he did according to Christian doctrinal tennets to atone 
> our inherited cynicism?
>
> Well, he is unfair then.
>
> And furthermore, he is not all capable.
>
> That plainly contradicts with God ultimate Omnipotence and Transcendence.
>
> Yes, it does.
>
> His atonement is conditional.
>
> Yes, because he demanded someone to pay the debt on our behalf.
>
> Jesus according to Christians paid the debt of the inherited sinful nature 
> of humanity and thus, he deserved worship. According to Christianity,
>
> He owes us a debt, so Christians worship him as a payback.
>
> Now the question is, why God demanded to do so?
>
> Meaning, if God is all Omnipotent and Transcendent, and we believe He is, 
> but in Christianity, the concept is disputable. But anyhow, if God is all 
> Omnipotent and Transcendent, he would’ve not demanded to appoint someone 
> to pay the debt. Am I correct? According to Christianity, God was in need 
> for Jesus to pay the debt of death, so he died on our behalf.
>
> The point I’m attempting to convey folks, that God is all Omnipotent and 
> Transcendent, and thus, he could’ve atoned us unconditionally.
>
> Why he didn’t do that?
>
> Do you believe that God is able to create a human embryo in a female’s 
> womb without a male?
>
> If you say no, you’re then doubting God’s ultimate Omnipotence, and that’s 
> a big trouble.
>
> If you say yes, then it’s over sir.
>
> The whole argument dissolves.
>
> That’s what we believe in regarding the miraculous birth of Jesus Christ.
>
> He was born miraculously.
>
> We believe in him as the proceeded spirit from God.
>
> But, that doesn’t mean we should worship him.
>
> If we should worship Jesus for that reason, then we should worship Adam 
> for that matter as well.
>
> Adam was created without any physical relation.
>
> He didn’t live in the womb for awhile, unlike the situation of Jesus.
>
> God created him from the mud, and then, he said unto him, be, and he was.
>
> He was started from scratch, as they say in English.
>
>     Christians are preaching the worship of Jesus, whilst Jesus himself 
> never explicitly commanded someone to worship him.
>
> I always ask my Christian friends, where is the proof in the scripture?
>
> Well, they quote me some verses but, these verses are implicitly 
> interpreted, and they could variously be apprehended.
>
> Christianity lacks of the vital commitment which constitutes  parental 
> fundamentals of monotheism.
> The problem would probably be, that Christians don’t mind representing God 
> in physical portrayals, God incarnate as they say.
> God in Islam has no physical incarnation with any of His creation.
>
> If God incarnates, that means he is physical, and the physical state of 
> god demands him to be imperfect.
>
> God in Christianity is a personified being.
>
> He lacks the state of ultimate Transcendence.
>
> God in Christianity is in a state of enormous imperfection.
>
> Christianity is a dandy religion by definition.
>
> It induces a fabulous appearance.
>
> But, it contains numerous inconsistencies.
>
>  If you thoroughly study the major concepts of Christianity, you will 
> conveniently recognize that it is filled with numerous  doctrinal defects.
>
>
>
>  It is filled with theological defects as much as you can count.
>
> I know that may disappoint my Christian friends but, it’s imperative to 
> speak the truth.
>
> I suppose I’m the one to blame for being rational.
>
> But I am afraid, I can’t believe in blindly.
>
> I can’t develop my faith beyond inference. I know better.
>
> I may not be perfect. I may not have everything. But I’m still thankful to 
> God for everything he has given me.
>
> God has given me a mind to think with. Christians and I agree on this.
>
> If God wanted us to blindly believe, he would’ve just made us slugs.
>
> Islam encourages us to think, to rationally assess the concepts, so it’s 
> to convincingly determine what’s true and what’s false.
>
> Islam addresses the spiritual, the physical along with the mental factors 
> of the human being.
>
> Islam has a substantial commonality with the logical sense.
>
> Islam guide, what do Muslims believe about Jesus?
>
> http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm
> May God guide us all to what pleases Him, Amen.
> Upon you be peace and blessings.
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