[Faith-talk] Original sin and salvation in Christianity and Islam.

[Doris and Chris]

Hi, Mustafa

I hope you might take the time to respond. I am genuinely intersted 
in this discussion. You may have noticed that I do not automatically 
agree with anything Christian just because I have been tought to 
believe a certain way.

Here is hoping for an intesting discussion!

doris in germany




At 09:21 AM 11/24/2013 -0900, you wrote:
>Hello Mustafa, you forget this one other important atrabute of God, 
>he is Just. You study this atrabute of God and then fit it into this 
>argument pleas, then take some time to give a more balanced and 
>informed response or you simply muddy up the waters of your own 
>argument. Also, he didn't just die for some inherited sin, he died 
>for actual sin that people have committed, consciously, willfully, 
>"All have sinned and come short of God's Glory" and "No one is 
>righteous, no not one," So it goes much deeper than you may 
>understand looking from the outside in. Once a person feels the 
>weight of their own sin, how heavy it is, how shameful it really 
>feels, then a person can start to understand how pier the love that 
>caused him to come down to this earth, leave his glory in heaven, 
>and be tortured, nailed to a tree to remove the curse of death, the 
>black stain of sin and take it up and bare it in all of its 
>humiliation, pain, betrayal and suffering then you start to get a 
>glimpse of the Christians hope in this great work of salvation.  I 
>imagine you won't reply, but I am still giving you the benefit of 
>the doubt. Romans 11:    33Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom 
>and knowledge of God!        How unsearchable his 
>judgments,        and his paths beyond tracing out!     34"Who has 
>known the mind of the Lord?        Or who has been his 
>counselor?     35"Who has ever given to God,        that God should 
>repay him?"     36For from him and through him and to him are all 
>things.        To him be the glory forever! Amen. ----- Original 
>Message ----- From: "Mostafa" <mostafa.almahdy at gmail.com> To: 
><Undisclosed-Recipient:;> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 8:34 PM 
>Subject: [Faith-talk] Original sin and salvation in Christianity and 
>Islam. >                        Dear all, upon you be peace and 
>blessings. > > On today's post, I would like to explain and 
>illustrate the  concept of > original sin and salvation, in both 
>Christianity and Islam. > > First; Original sin in Christianity. > > 
>To simplify the concept, it is the sin of Adam and Eve and their 
>eating > from the forbidden tree. > > This disobedience is 
>considered as the original sin in Christianity. > > What do they 
>believe? > > > 1; They believe it was the first ever committed 
>sin. > > 2; It is consecutively inherited. > > 3; As a consequence 
>to that, Jesus died on the cross to save the humanity > from its 
>initially sinful nature. Or as Christian Apologists say to their > 
>audience; He died for your sins. > > So, if I properly comprehend 
>the concept, God has sent his son to die for > our sins. Is that 
>correct? > > Well, if it's so, then God is actually in trouble. > He 
>can't atone the human inherited cynicism, unless he sheds the blood 
>on > the cross. > > Isn't that what he did according to Christian 
>doctrinal tennets to atone > our inherited cynicism? > > Well, he is 
>unfair then. > > And furthermore, he is not all capable. > > That 
>plainly contradicts with God ultimate Omnipotence and 
>Transcendence. > > Yes, it does. > > His atonement is 
>conditional. > > Yes, because he demanded someone to pay the debt on 
>our behalf. > > Jesus according to Christians paid the debt of the 
>inherited sinful nature > of humanity and thus, he deserved worship. 
>According to Christianity, > > He owes us a debt, so Christians 
>worship him as a payback. > > Now the question is, why God demanded 
>to do so? > > Meaning, if God is all Omnipotent and Transcendent, 
>and we believe He is, > but in Christianity, the concept is 
>disputable. But anyhow, if God is all > Omnipotent and Transcendent, 
>he would've not demanded to appoint someone > to pay the debt. Am I 
>correct? According to Christianity, God was in need > for Jesus to 
>pay the debt of death, so he died on our behalf. > > The point I'm 
>attempting to convey folks, that God is all Omnipotent and > 
>Transcendent, and thus, he could've atoned us unconditionally. > > 
>Why he didn't do that? > > Do you believe that God is able to create 
>a human embryo in a female's > womb without a male? > > If you say 
>no, you're then doubting God's ultimate Omnipotence, and that's > a 
>big trouble. > > If you say yes, then it's over sir. > > The whole 
>argument dissolves. > > That's what we believe in regarding the 
>miraculous birth of Jesus Christ. > > He was born miraculously. > > 
>We believe in him as the proceeded spirit from God. > > But, that 
>doesn't mean we should worship him. > > If we should worship Jesus 
>for that reason, then we should worship Adam > for that matter as 
>well. > > Adam was created without any physical relation. > > He 
>didn't live in the womb for awhile, unlike the situation of 
>Jesus. > > God created him from the mud, and then, he said unto him, 
>be, and he was. > > He was started from scratch, as they say in 
>English. > >     Christians are preaching the worship of Jesus, 
>whilst Jesus himself > never explicitly commanded someone to worship 
>him. > > I always ask my Christian friends, where is the proof in 
>the scripture? > > Well, they quote me some verses but, these verses 
>are implicitly > interpreted, and they could variously be 
>apprehended. > > Christianity lacks of the vital commitment which 
>constitutes  parental > fundamentals of monotheism. > The problem 
>would probably be, that Christians don't mind representing God > in 
>physical portrayals, God incarnate as they say. > God in Islam has 
>no physical incarnation with any of His creation. > > If God 
>incarnates, that means he is physical, and the physical state of > 
>god demands him to be imperfect. > > God in Christianity is a 
>personified being. > > He lacks the state of ultimate 
>Transcendence. > > God in Christianity is in a state of enormous 
>imperfection. > > Christianity is a dandy religion by 
>definition. > > It induces a fabulous appearance. > > But, it 
>contains numerous inconsistencies. > >  If you thoroughly study the 
>major concepts of Christianity, you will > conveniently recognize 
>that it is filled with numerous  doctrinal defects. > > > >  It is 
>filled with theological defects as much as you can count. > > I know 
>that may disappoint my Christian friends but, it's imperative to > 
>speak the truth. > > I suppose I'm the one to blame for being 
>rational. > > But I am afraid, I can't believe in blindly. > > I 
>can't develop my faith beyond inference. I know better. > > I may 
>not be perfect. I may not have everything. But I'm still thankful 
>to > God for everything he has given me. > > God has given me a mind 
>to think with. Christians and I agree on this. > > If God wanted us 
>to blindly believe, he would've just made us slugs. > > Islam 
>encourages us to think, to rationally assess the concepts, so it's > 
>to convincingly determine what's true and what's false. > > Islam 
>addresses the spiritual, the physical along with the mental 
>factors > of the human being. > > Islam has a substantial 
>commonality with the logical sense. > > Islam guide, what do Muslims 
>believe about Jesus? > > http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm > May 
>God guide us all to what pleases Him, Amen. > Upon you be peace and 
>blessings. > _______________________________________________ > 
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