[Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs

Fri May 16 16:05:06 UTC 2014

Andrew,

I think if you wish to prove the Bible’s truthfulness, it would be better to present the case here, rather than referring us to a book. If you’d rather not, that’s OK, too. But I know for myself that I don’t plan on picking up a book about someone’s conversion to a religion about which I’ve already done plenty of searching and come to my own conclusions. But I am open to hearing why *you* believe it is true, and we can continue our discussion from that point, or not, depending on your preference.

Brandon
On May 16, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Andrew via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi  not sure if you know who lee stroble
> is he was a reporter  long time or go or is or was a pastor he used
> to be an athioust but anyway you could read his books if you wish
> there is one called case for christ case for easter and few others. he
> did a deep search and became a christian as result.  i assume you are
> totally blind you might be able to get them in an excessible format.
> On 5/16/14, justin williams via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> And please do nnot try to prove the bible with the bible; that does not
>> work, unless you have faith.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Brandon
>> Olivares via Faith-talk
>> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:53 AM
>> To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>> 
>> Respectfully, I do not think it is possible to prove the Bible is true.
>> It's
>> really not even possible to prove that God exists. That is why there is
>> something called faith. :) On May 16, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Andrew
>> <andrewjedg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> reason i flew off like i did was because the way you put it seemed
>>> like you were targeting all christians even if you did not use the
>>> word all but that is what it seemed anyway. the bible is more than
>>> just a book. i could prove that it is more than just a book yes men
>>> wrote the bible but  god gave them the words on which to say and
>>> scripture was god breathed.
>>> 
>>> On 5/16/14, Brandon Olivares via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Andrew,
>>>> 
>>>> I never said all Christians were bad. My wife Christine is Christian
>>>> and she's certainly not bad, and indeed very accepting of my path.
>>>> 
>>>> Truth is the way, yes precisely. But to me, not necessarily Jesus,
>>>> and for me the Bible does not prove that. It is just a book, no more.
>>>> But I think it may be best to agree to disagree, unless you are
>>>> interested in continuing this. I have nothing to defend nor do I wish
>>>> to convert you nor anyone else.
>>>> 
>>>> Brandon
>>>> On May 16, 2014, at 10:14 AM, Andrew <andrewjedg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> being a christian is not a religion it is about having a relationship
>>>>> with jesus  i don't agree that it is a religion.   and brandon not all
>>>>> christians  are not bad.  that said nobody is perfect  but that does
>>>>> not mean all christians are bad.   we all screw up and make mistakes
>>>>> but does not make all christians terrible to be around that may be
>>>>> your experience yes but  still not all christians are bad.   besides
>>>>> the bible says the  truth is the way truth and the life and the
>>>>> bible proves that jesus really excisted and he  is the only way
>>>>> truth and life.  and i believe we are in the last days and that
>>>>> satan is doing a good job at deceiving many  in the world today.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/16/14, Brandon Olivares via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I would not call persecution a few people disagreeing with you on a
>>>>>> mailing list. :) On May 16, 2014, at 8:03 AM, Maureen Pranghofer
>>>>>> via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And we are supposed to be questioned persecuted on the outside the
>>>>>>> Bible predicts it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: sheila via Faith-talk
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:31 AM
>>>>>>> To: justin williams ; Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and
>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I don't believe this statement is fair. It's okay if others
>>>>>>> espouse there views but we as christians shouldn't do that no way
>>>>>>> is that correct. anyone can and should be able to explain beliefs
>>>>>>> including those of us that are Christians.
>>>>>>> On 5/15/2014 3:23 PM, justin williams via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>> Are you folks arguing or something; It sounds like Brandon tried
>>>>>>>> to explain his belief system on a list which was supposed to be
>>>>>>>> one shared by all faiths. The Christians have expressed their
>>>>>>>> faith over and over, slapped each other on the back and a mened
>>>>>>>> ever sense I've been on this list.
>>>>>>>> Oh,
>>>>>>>> and you have also piled onto anyone else who is not saying the
>>>>>>>> exact same things you espouse.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Poppa Bear via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:10 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'Brandon Olivares'; 'Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith
>>>>>>>> and religion'
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Some of this logic cuts itself off at the feet and only goes so far.
>>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>> is a story about an  Indian man who argued that we were all
>>>>>>>> nothing as he taught a body of seekers, his argument was quite
>>>>>>>> convincing. After the discussion when he went out and walked
>>>>>>>> across a field a bull started to charge him and he started to
>>>>>>>> run. One of the people at his talk yelled to him, "You don't need
>>>>>>>> to run, the bull is really not there and pain is only in your
>>>>>>>> mind." That is a belief than can go no further than the mind in
>>>>>>>> my opinion, because once we step into the real world, we are
>>>>>>>> faced with choices that we put our minds to almost every minute.
>>>>>>>> If you said, "I need to go to the bathroom", and I said, that is
>>>>>>>> simply a feeling that is not real, then you may think that this
>>>>>>>> philosophy has felled in one small point. But if it works for
>>>>>>>> you, then only you know how it fits your way of thinking and if
>>>>>>>> it is an honest approach to your daily activity, or if you have
>>>>>>>> to separate your beliefs from your real life.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Brandon Olivares via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:10 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Linda Mentink; Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and
>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I love to question. In my experience, nothing is true.
>>>>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Linda Mentink via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> And God says in His Word, the Bible, that he resisteth the
>>>>>>>>> proud, but
>>>>>>>> gives grace to the humble. Of course, it's fine to question many
>>>>>>>> things, but not the Bible and your faith in God, if you have
>>>>>>>> such. If you don't, that's good reason to question your beliefs.
>>>>>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Linda
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> At 02:37 PM 5/15/2014, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I think that questions can be good, but as a father of 7, I do
>>>>>>>>>> find that when my children are able to listen without
>>>>>>>>>> questioning everything I ask
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> them it brings a trust, an intimacy that is sometimes tattered
>>>>>>>>>> by the
>>>>>>>> twenty
>>>>>>>>>> questions. As for me, being married, I will often do something
>>>>>>>>>> for my
>>>>>>>> wife
>>>>>>>>>> simply because she asks me, I may think that it is silly, may
>>>>>>>>>> want to question her reasons, needs and all that, but simply
>>>>>>>>>> doing, or obeying
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>> more to create the bond of love and trust that I think a
>>>>>>>>>> marriage is
>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>>> on than being a analytical owl about everything. Also, we will
>>>>>>>>>> often
>>>>>>>> pride
>>>>>>>>>> ourselves on asking questions about something like faith,
>>>>>>>>>> something that demands a real commitment from us, but we will
>>>>>>>>>> often swallow whole the garbage in our culture, imitating much
>>>>>>>>>> of it, desiring much of it, or prematurely condemning it.
>>>>>>>>>> Interesting stuff.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kirt via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:26 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: sheila; Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and
>>>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> :-) I, for one, take pride in questioning everything. Even my
>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 12:38 PM, sheila via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> hi Linda I am in complete agreement and am not interested in
>>>>>>>> questioning
>>>>>>>>>> my beliefs. They are based on the  word of god.
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2014 10:15 AM, Linda Mentink via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not question my beliefs, not since Christ came to live in
>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> Bible is my Guide for life. I receive many things from it,
>>>>>>>>>> including comfort, wisdom, assurance that I will spend eternity
>>>>>>>>>> in heaven, and knowledge of the Triune God.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those who say they have accepted Christ as their personal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Saviour, and
>>>>>>>>>> still continue to lie, cheat and steal, put too much emphasis
>>>>>>>>>> on what
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> did. They have not repented of these sins, and, consequently,
>>>>>>>>>> their conversion is not real.
>>>>>>>>>>>> True Christians abhor sin, and, with God's help, do their
>>>>>>>>>>>> best to live
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> different life than they did before Christ came to live in them.
>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> do sin, which all do, they are sorry, and ask God's
>>>>>>>>>> forgiveness; and, if necessary, and they have sinned against
>>>>>>>>>> someone, they ask forgiveness of that person. Many who think
>>>>>>>>>> they are Christians will be surprised when
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> meet God, and are turned away from Him to spend eternity in
>>>>>>>>>> hell with
>>>>>>>> Satan
>>>>>>>>>> and his demons.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity has been around since the beginning of creation.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> take God at His Word, and accept the free grace and forgiveness
>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>> offers,
>>>>>>>>>> will spend their life after earthly death in eternity in Heaven
>>>>>>>>>> with Him.
>>>>>>>>>> Eastern religions and cults are man-made, and were made up not
>>>>>>>>>> that long
>>>>>>>> ago
>>>>>>>>>> by people who rejected God, didn't know about Him, or wanted to
>>>>>>>>>> do things their own way--which, I guess, is the same as rejecting
>> God.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sad for those who believe such nonsense, because their
>>>>>>>>>>>> end, no
>>>>>>>>>> matter what they say, will be condemnation to the lake of fire,
>>>>>>>>>> where no relief will be had.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to be harsh or offensive, but that's what the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible says
>>>>>>>>>> concerning them, and I believe the Bible to be true. It is the
>>>>>>>>>> inspired
>>>>>>>> Word
>>>>>>>>>> of God. All it says will come to pass, if it hasn't already.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I will not question my beliefs, but will continue to stand on
>>>>>>>>>>>> what I
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> to be true in the Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Linda
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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