[Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
Poppa Bear via Faith-talk
faith-talk at nfbnet.org
Fri May 16 16:27:24 UTC 2014
Brandon, I am not sure of what you qualify as true, but not to sound too
Spiritual, do you believe that some truths are felt more than proven? There
are many ways truth filters into our understanding, sometimes they are
obvious, other times they may come through our trust in another person and
what they hold to be truth, and sometimes the truth is a manifestation that
takes place over time because all of the truth can't be understood at once
because of limitations in life experience or our finite understanding. I
will throw a couple things out to chew on. My younger children often think
that I simply don't love them because of an isolated incident and in their
minds and emotions they feel that is an absolute, but as they grow up,
experience life and become parents they will start to understand that I
actually did love them their whole lives and that their childhood
perceptions were extremely limited and they couldn't really see the truth of
the matter. Another example, when a person has been blind their whole life,
how do you go about proving that the sun is real to them? They can only feel
a heat, the same kind of heat that they may feel under a bulb, or near a
heater or fire, they can't touch the sun, see it or even conceptualize the
distance from the sun to our planet. It is never the less a reality and a
truth that there is a large bright ball of burning gasses providing light
and heat to our planet and it hangs in the sky every single day. At some
point that truth is taken into the understanding of the blind person as a
factual truth because of many experiences and relationships with trust
worthy people who can assure the blind person that there is indeed a sun in
the sky. At that point, the blind person could start to even pursue large
amounts of information about the sun and sift through the years of facts and
fallacies about it, and still have never seen the sun, but only felt it when
it is there, or its absence when it is not. Sometimes that is what our
journey through the Bible is like, it is a constant revelation that moves
from points of confusion to a twilight of dim shadows to a burning sunlight
illuminating our entire understandings. Sometimes it is bit by bit and other
times it is large fields of rich treasures that become clear to our
understanding.
-----Original Message-----
From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brandon
Olivares via Faith-talk
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 8:05 AM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
Andrew,
I think if you wish to prove the Bible's truthfulness, it would be better to
present the case here, rather than referring us to a book. If you'd rather
not, that's OK, too. But I know for myself that I don't plan on picking up a
book about someone's conversion to a religion about which I've already done
plenty of searching and come to my own conclusions. But I am open to hearing
why *you* believe it is true, and we can continue our discussion from that
point, or not, depending on your preference.
Brandon
On May 16, 2014, at 11:54 AM, Andrew via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> Hi not sure if you know who lee stroble is he was a reporter long
> time or go or is or was a pastor he used to be an athioust but anyway
> you could read his books if you wish there is one called case for
> christ case for easter and few others. he did a deep search and became
> a christian as result. i assume you are totally blind you might be
> able to get them in an excessible format.
> On 5/16/14, justin williams via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> And please do nnot try to prove the bible with the bible; that does
>> not work, unless you have faith.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Brandon Olivares via Faith-talk
>> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 10:53 AM
>> To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and religion
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>
>> Respectfully, I do not think it is possible to prove the Bible is true.
>> It's
>> really not even possible to prove that God exists. That is why there
>> is something called faith. :) On May 16, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Andrew
>> <andrewjedg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> reason i flew off like i did was because the way you put it seemed
>>> like you were targeting all christians even if you did not use the
>>> word all but that is what it seemed anyway. the bible is more than
>>> just a book. i could prove that it is more than just a book yes men
>>> wrote the bible but god gave them the words on which to say and
>>> scripture was god breathed.
>>>
>>> On 5/16/14, Brandon Olivares via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> I never said all Christians were bad. My wife Christine is
>>>> Christian and she's certainly not bad, and indeed very accepting of my
path.
>>>>
>>>> Truth is the way, yes precisely. But to me, not necessarily Jesus,
>>>> and for me the Bible does not prove that. It is just a book, no more.
>>>> But I think it may be best to agree to disagree, unless you are
>>>> interested in continuing this. I have nothing to defend nor do I
>>>> wish to convert you nor anyone else.
>>>>
>>>> Brandon
>>>> On May 16, 2014, at 10:14 AM, Andrew <andrewjedg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> being a christian is not a religion it is about having a relationship
>>>>> with jesus i don't agree that it is a religion. and brandon not all
>>>>> christians are not bad. that said nobody is perfect but that does
>>>>> not mean all christians are bad. we all screw up and make mistakes
>>>>> but does not make all christians terrible to be around that may be
>>>>> your experience yes but still not all christians are bad. besides
>>>>> the bible says the truth is the way truth and the life and the
>>>>> bible proves that jesus really excisted and he is the only way
>>>>> truth and life. and i believe we are in the last days and that
>>>>> satan is doing a good job at deceiving many in the world today.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/16/14, Brandon Olivares via Faith-talk
>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I would not call persecution a few people disagreeing with you on
>>>>>> a mailing list. :) On May 16, 2014, at 8:03 AM, Maureen
>>>>>> Pranghofer via Faith-talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And we are supposed to be questioned persecuted on the outside
>>>>>>> the Bible predicts it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: sheila via Faith-talk
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 2:31 AM
>>>>>>> To: justin williams ; Faith-talk,for the discussion of faith and
>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't believe this statement is fair. It's okay if others
>>>>>>> espouse there views but we as christians shouldn't do that no
>>>>>>> way is that correct. anyone can and should be able to explain
>>>>>>> beliefs including those of us that are Christians.
>>>>>>> On 5/15/2014 3:23 PM, justin williams via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>> Are you folks arguing or something; It sounds like Brandon
>>>>>>>> tried to explain his belief system on a list which was supposed
>>>>>>>> to be one shared by all faiths. The Christians have expressed
>>>>>>>> their faith over and over, slapped each other on the back and a
>>>>>>>> mened ever sense I've been on this list.
>>>>>>>> Oh,
>>>>>>>> and you have also piled onto anyone else who is not saying the
>>>>>>>> exact same things you espouse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Poppa Bear via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 5:10 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'Brandon Olivares'; 'Faith-talk, for the discussion of
>>>>>>>> faith and religion'
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of this logic cuts itself off at the feet and only goes so
far.
>>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>> is a story about an Indian man who argued that we were all
>>>>>>>> nothing as he taught a body of seekers, his argument was quite
>>>>>>>> convincing. After the discussion when he went out and walked
>>>>>>>> across a field a bull started to charge him and he started to
>>>>>>>> run. One of the people at his talk yelled to him, "You don't
>>>>>>>> need to run, the bull is really not there and pain is only in
>>>>>>>> your mind." That is a belief than can go no further than the
>>>>>>>> mind in my opinion, because once we step into the real world,
>>>>>>>> we are faced with choices that we put our minds to almost every
minute.
>>>>>>>> If you said, "I need to go to the bathroom", and I said, that
>>>>>>>> is simply a feeling that is not real, then you may think that
>>>>>>>> this philosophy has felled in one small point. But if it works
>>>>>>>> for you, then only you know how it fits your way of thinking
>>>>>>>> and if it is an honest approach to your daily activity, or if
>>>>>>>> you have to separate your beliefs from your real life.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Brandon Olivares via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 12:10 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Linda Mentink; Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and
>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I love to question. In my experience, nothing is true.
>>>>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 3:53 PM, Linda Mentink via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And God says in His Word, the Bible, that he resisteth the
>>>>>>>>> proud, but
>>>>>>>> gives grace to the humble. Of course, it's fine to question
>>>>>>>> many things, but not the Bible and your faith in God, if you
>>>>>>>> have such. If you don't, that's good reason to question your
beliefs.
>>>>>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Linda
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At 02:37 PM 5/15/2014, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I think that questions can be good, but as a father of 7, I
>>>>>>>>>> do find that when my children are able to listen without
>>>>>>>>>> questioning everything I ask
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> them it brings a trust, an intimacy that is sometimes
>>>>>>>>>> tattered by the
>>>>>>>> twenty
>>>>>>>>>> questions. As for me, being married, I will often do
>>>>>>>>>> something for my
>>>>>>>> wife
>>>>>>>>>> simply because she asks me, I may think that it is silly, may
>>>>>>>>>> want to question her reasons, needs and all that, but simply
>>>>>>>>>> doing, or obeying
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>> more to create the bond of love and trust that I think a
>>>>>>>>>> marriage is
>>>>>>>> built
>>>>>>>>>> on than being a analytical owl about everything. Also, we
>>>>>>>>>> will often
>>>>>>>> pride
>>>>>>>>>> ourselves on asking questions about something like faith,
>>>>>>>>>> something that demands a real commitment from us, but we will
>>>>>>>>>> often swallow whole the garbage in our culture, imitating
>>>>>>>>>> much of it, desiring much of it, or prematurely condemning it.
>>>>>>>>>> Interesting stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Faith-talk [mailto:faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kirt via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:26 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: sheila; Faith-talk, for the discussion of faith and
>>>>>>>>>> religion
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Questioning Our Beliefs
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> :-) I, for one, take pride in questioning everything. Even my
>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 15, 2014, at 12:38 PM, sheila via Faith-talk
>>>>>>>>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> hi Linda I am in complete agreement and am not interested in
>>>>>>>> questioning
>>>>>>>>>> my beliefs. They are based on the word of god.
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/15/2014 10:15 AM, Linda Mentink via Faith-talk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not question my beliefs, not since Christ came to live
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> Bible is my Guide for life. I receive many things from it,
>>>>>>>>>> including comfort, wisdom, assurance that I will spend
>>>>>>>>>> eternity in heaven, and knowledge of the Triune God.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those who say they have accepted Christ as their personal
>>>>>>>>>>>> Saviour, and
>>>>>>>>>> still continue to lie, cheat and steal, put too much emphasis
>>>>>>>>>> on what
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> did. They have not repented of these sins, and, consequently,
>>>>>>>>>> their conversion is not real.
>>>>>>>>>>>> True Christians abhor sin, and, with God's help, do their
>>>>>>>>>>>> best to live
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> different life than they did before Christ came to live in them.
>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> do sin, which all do, they are sorry, and ask God's
>>>>>>>>>> forgiveness; and, if necessary, and they have sinned against
>>>>>>>>>> someone, they ask forgiveness of that person. Many who think
>>>>>>>>>> they are Christians will be surprised when
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> meet God, and are turned away from Him to spend eternity in
>>>>>>>>>> hell with
>>>>>>>> Satan
>>>>>>>>>> and his demons.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity has been around since the beginning of creation.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> take God at His Word, and accept the free grace and
>>>>>>>>>> forgiveness He
>>>>>>>> offers,
>>>>>>>>>> will spend their life after earthly death in eternity in
>>>>>>>>>> Heaven with Him.
>>>>>>>>>> Eastern religions and cults are man-made, and were made up
>>>>>>>>>> not that long
>>>>>>>> ago
>>>>>>>>>> by people who rejected God, didn't know about Him, or wanted
>>>>>>>>>> to do things their own way--which, I guess, is the same as
>>>>>>>>>> rejecting
>> God.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am sad for those who believe such nonsense, because their
>>>>>>>>>>>> end, no
>>>>>>>>>> matter what they say, will be condemnation to the lake of
>>>>>>>>>> fire, where no relief will be had.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to be harsh or offensive, but that's what the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Bible says
>>>>>>>>>> concerning them, and I believe the Bible to be true. It is
>>>>>>>>>> the inspired
>>>>>>>> Word
>>>>>>>>>> of God. All it says will come to pass, if it hasn't already.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I will not question my beliefs, but will continue to stand
>>>>>>>>>>>> on what I
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> to be true in the Bible.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Linda
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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