[Faith-talk] The Bible and the Law.

Wed May 28 18:32:28 UTC 2014

Thank you all for writing me back.

I believe that Brandon is getting quite close to my crucial point.

We do not disagree on the existence or the documentation of the text.

We are in factional discernments because of how we interpret the text
that we knew it exists.

Let me clarify a bit further;

We find a text which the Gospel of Matthew attributes to Christ as he
asserts that he did not come to abolish the law, but to rather fulfill
it.

That text is reliable for Christians today, because it is kept in
their scriptures.

So if someone later in the book of Acts proclaims in some form or
another that he will abrogate, replace, cancel, alternate, or even
upgrade the law, he exactly goes against what Jesus explicitly
asserted back then.

If the chief of the supreme court has decreed a creed, can someone who
is lower than him in authority abrogate its legitimacy?

Christians consider Jesus to be divine, yet he said he will not
extinguish the law.

And then they come Peter or Paul, they basicly dismiss the denotative
commandment of Christ and they say they will do away with the law
which Jesus incisively conforms he comes to fulfill.

I believe the one who constitutes a principled legislation is  only
the one who can later abrogate it.

I also want to look at another aspect of Christianity.

Christianity believes that Jesus brought the message of love and mercy.

So does it mean that the former message was of wrath, damnation and misery?

As Muslims, we believe in the one covenant of Allah glory be to Him.

Poppa Bear unambiguously  mentioned the contract that was made with Adam.

Perhaps he meant the divine injunction of not to eat from the forbidden trea.

As I mentioned in  many times before, the story is quite similar in
the Koranic narration, unless therein, they were given the chance to
basicly repent.

But for Adam and Eve in the Bible, they were not given the chance to repent.

They were cursed, expelled, and the temptation to eat from the
forbidden trea was blamed on Eve, as exactly it was blamed on the
devil, which is graphically portrayed as a cerpent in Genesis.

Adam was told that if he eats from the forbidden trea, surely a death
he shall die.

But did he die?

I am afraid, he actually did not.

I do not want to hear about the spiritual death interpretation,
because the commandments of God are plain, explicit, straightforward,
and they do not rely on metaphorical based.

The question which I repeatedly raised on that regard;

Was not God capable of giving them the chance to basicly repent?,
especially if it  was their ever first time to sin.

I think I asked that question many times before.

Christians inaccurately assume that justice and grace contradict with
each other.

Who said they do?

They are quite applicable with each other if the wisdom of God intervened.

If someone sinned, he can basicly return to Allah with weep, regret
and repentance.

I believe we need to think about that.

Thank you, and have a pleasant time.

On 5/28/14, Brandon Olivares <programmer2188 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mostafa,
>
> I think you are quite right here. Jesus himself said he did not come to
> replace the law:
>
> Matthew 5:17-18
>
> 17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have
> not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until
> heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of
> a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is
> accomplished.
>
> Make of it what you will.
>
> Not to be crass, but perhaps Peter just really wanted some pork. :)
>
> --
> Brandon
>
> www.EscapeTheDream.org: Put an End to Suffering and Return to Joy
>
> Latest blog post: The Illusion of Choice
>
> Facebook: Brandon.Olivares
> Twitter: @devbanana
>
> On May 28, 2014, at 1:32 AM, Mostafa Almahdy via Faith-talk
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>>
>>
>>
>> I appreciate everyone trying to explain.
>>
>> You all sound genuine in your attempts to express your point, and I
>> quite appreciate that.
>>
>> Let us not forget that the text of Matthew is uttered by Jesus, whilst
>> the text of acts is uttered by others.
>>
>> My question to Brandon was, can somebody else abrogate what Jesus said
>> he comes to fulfill?
>>
>> I want now to comment on the point that sister Linda articulated,
>> because it is a quite interesting one.
>>
>> Thank you so much Linda for conveying your contribution, I really
>> appreciate it.
>>
>> I believe I competently comprehend English.
>>
>> I never heard of  replace being the synonym of fulfill.
>>
>> I am not sure though, do we write  English properly here?
>>
>> Fulfill is interpreted as replace?
>>
>> I am afraid but I believe that such interpretation is lingually
>> incorrect.
>>
>> It does not work from even the metaphorical standpoint.
>>
>> Fulfillment is to bring an action into completion and fruition.
>>
>> Whilst replacement is the permutation of something by what equates it
>> in either its value or significance.
>>
>> Without being offensive, but I think we need to interpret things in
>> according to the common sense.
>>
>> I never claimed I am expert in the Bible.
>>
>> I am just countenancing my rational standards to determine the
>> sequential relationship among concepts and their based statements.
>>
>> If the Mosaic laws were abrogated by the teachings of Jesus, does that
>> include the condemnation and the decisively prescribed penalty of
>> lapidation regarding the trespass of homosexuality?
>>
>> So to be really crystal clear;
>>
>> Is that dietary tradition which is abrogated or the whole covenant?
>>
>> I believe we have instigated  a valuable scrutiny, and I am certainly
>> intrigued to carry on.
>>
>> I so much enjoy and I quite benefit from constantly interacting on the
>> faith talk list.
>>
>> I attentively follow the daily articles of brother Paul, and I learn
>> quite a lot from the well written essays he posts.
>>
>> I like the level of English he uses there.
>>
>> I have been a member of the  list since last August.
>>
>> I have been tremendously exposed to the Christian devotion and
>> earnestness about their faith.
>>
>> I believe we will continue to wholeheartedly disagree on the core of
>> what we believe.
>>
>> I hope we continue to do so, whilst showing empathy, honor and respect
>> to each other.
>>
>> I suggest that we may schedule  a regular meeting on Skype, in which
>> we can discuss faith related subjects.
>>
>> We may seek for mutually agreed upon subjects to begin with.
>>
>> I am sure we can think of many.
>>
>> It is faith that brought us together.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Peace, blessings, and much respect from me.
>>
>> Mostafa.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/28/14, debby phillips <semisweetdebby at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi! Well, you make some interesting points.  First of all, in the
>>> Acts of the Apostles, Peter has a vision where he is told to eat
>>> of all that is shone him.  (I'm paraphrasing).  He says, I can't
>>> do that, I've never eaten anything unclean.  He has the vision a
>>> couple more times.  Then Peter is told by the Lord that there are
>>> people waiting for him, Gentiles.  At that time, Jews were not
>>> supposed to even enter the house of a Gentile.  Then, as Paul
>>> begins preaching to the Gentiles, it comes down to the first
>>> Church Council and the decision is that Gentiles do not need to
>>> follow Jewish law, dietary or otherwise.  You can head all of
>>> this in Chapter 15 of Acts, also in Galatians where Paul tells
>>> the Gentiles not to let the Judaizers, (that is, those Jewish
>>> Christians who think that they need to make all Christians follow
>>> Jewish Law) from destroying them.  That's the beginning, I would
>>> say.  I'm sure POPPA Bear or someone will articulate this much
>>> better.    Peace,    Debby
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> (Seeking knowledge is compulsory from cratle to grave because it is a
>> shoreless ocean.)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Faith-talk mailing list
>> Faith-talk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/faith-talk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Faith-talk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/faith-talk_nfbnet.org/programmer2188%40gmail.com
>
>

-- 
(Seeking knowledge is compulsory from cratle to grave because it is a
shoreless ocean.)