[Faith-talk] Dilemma
Ashley Bramlett
bookwormahb at earthlink.net
Wed Jun 28 21:48:54 UTC 2017
Hi,
Interesting how we see messages. I did not see David's message as
proselytizing. He used the word I a lot so a reader knows it is his
thoughts. I agree with him about the role of faith. You get salvation
through Christ.
Ericka, I think you believe it too because you actually just wrote
"faith saves us and that is faith alone in God"
So, I suppose the tone of some message offends people. I actually think from
little I gathered about you all's personal beliefs that we actually agree
more than disagree. It seems like the active listers read the Bible and pray
and have God or another diety in our lives.
All of us read the Bible or parts of it but just come away with different
things.
How we live out the faith may differ from one person to another. For some
of you, you go to church to hear a sermon, for others it may be the sermon
and singing your heart out to God in choir, for others it might be good
works otherwise known as volunteering with church members to help the
impoverished, and for some like David, they feel content to worship alone in
their own living rooms.
Hopefully we can move forward and not take messages too personally.
Ashley
You said,
"I know too many "Christians" of all denominations and non denominations Who
are there just for the recognition it will bring them somewhere else, I E
church president for the resume."
Yep, I know some of those people too.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ericka via Faith-Talk
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:26 PM
To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
Cc: Ericka
Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Dilemma
Please stop proselytizing your belief without understanding that we are all
on here believe that faith saves us and that is faith alone in God. I felt
judged by the last email posted here. So much so that I could not read half
of the rambling message. You really need to understand things from other
people before you make comments. You were so we never read the Bible. You
assume that all of us worship ideas not God.
I completely believe that works for others comes from thankfulness for what
God has done for me. If a Christian faith is practiced rather than showing
up at appointed times and just going through the motions or personal gain
then it doesn't matter whether they are Catholic, Jewish, or Protestant of
some kind. I know too many "Christians" of all denominations and non
denominations Who are there just for the recognition it will bring them
somewhere else, I E church president for the resume. This past post reminds
me of the haughty prayer outside The temple who kept saying "I'm so glad I'm
not like the guy next to me. I do this, and this and this."
Ericka Short
>
> Hi all!
> I have ten books on my computer concerning church history. I have more
> books than that from very world renoun Bible Scholars.
> I could copy and paste some info from these books, how the church across
> the board has changed with every council, and wind of change. I will not
> say anymore from my fingers, unless you want me to paste it from very
> knowledgable sources and scholars who probably know a lot more about the
> Catholic church and all of the history of the church a lot more than we do
> on here. That is why the whole answer lies in having a personal
> relationship with Jesus Christ 24/7, constantly talking to him. That is
> what I have. Jesus is a part of my entire day. You see, Jesus Christ is
> the only one who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is only
> Jesus Christ who is constant and never changes. The church always has and
> will change, and let people down, because it is made up of human beeings.
> No matter how good a human being is, the Bible says that his heart is so
> evil, who can know it. I believe that I sit here is total skum, and
> deserve to go to hell right now. It is only because I put my trust in
> Jesus Christ, repented to Him of my sins, confessed that Jesus is God, the
> Son of God, and was buried and raised with Christ in baptism, then, I was
> saved by his shed blood. Acts 2:38, Romans 6 1-4, Romans 10 9-10, and many
> other passages. that is the only reason I believe that I am going to
> heaven at all. Jesus is my high priest. I go to my high priest, Jesus
> Christ, and ask for foregivness every day at least. It sure is not what I
> do for the church or anything like that that affects my salvation at all.
> However, because I know that Jesus Christ did everything that he did just
> for me, personally, that my love pores out for Him and others and causes
> me to do good works. My, Jesus is such a loving priest, he gives me all I
> need. That is what James chapter 2 is talking about. I do good works
> because I am already saved, I do not do good works to get saved. Without
> works your faith is dead. That is so true. But here is the message from
> that. If you already have faith and are saved, then works will
> automatically come forth from you, just like light from the sun. You do
> good works, because you are already saved and going to Heaven. You see,
> even James is saying that faith comes first, then, if you really have
> faith to begin with, it will prove itself by your works, If works do not
> pore out of you, you never got saved by faith to begin with. You see,
> being Saved is the chicken, and the egg is the works that automatically
> pore out of you if you are saved. A person who is dead in works and who
> does nothing for the Lord, never got saved by faith to begin with. My O
> my, when I think about how how I am saved by the murcy and grace of God, I
> can’t stop doing good works. I do not do good works, because someone
> stands over me and makes me, but I do works because I love Jesus so much
> because of what Jesus already did for me. I could jump up and down right
> now. Because jesus loves me so much, I am going to Heaven instead of Hell.
> Wow, I thinkI will dance LOL! You see, James is saying that the egg will
> prove there is a chicken. James is not saying, that if there are eggs on
> the ground, than there has to be a live chicken right by those eggs. James
> is saying that the eggs laying there will prove that a chicken had to be
> born first, to produce the eggs. If no works come out of a Christian’s
> life, he probably was not saved by faith and only faith to begin with.
> That is what james is saying. Even james is saying that salvation through
> faith and only through faith will automatically produce the works that
> will come forth after you are saved. You cannot stop doing good works if
> you are saved to begin with. You do not have to be made to do good works,
> you will want to jump up and do good works all day, if you are saved
> already by faith. . . Even Martin Luthor, did not understand that passage.
> He was not perfect either. I talk to my priest all day, every time my wife
> and I look for a handicapped parking spot, we pray to our high priest for
> one by the door, because Traci has bad arthritis in her knee. The book of
> Hebrews says that Jesus is now our high priest, under another order than
> the Mosaic priest hood. Those priests and the mosaic law brought us to the
> knowledge that we need an eternal savior for all time and for all sin.
> Only God himself can be that kind of priest. My high priest, Jesus Christ,
> absolves me many times a week. He Absolves me when I go boldly directly to
> him, before the very throne of God, in Jesus’s name. I think that people
> look to a certain church group too much for answers instead of going
> boldly to the throne of God we have access to through the blood. The
> church is just a group of imperfect human beings, no matter if it is
> catholic or whatever. In 1 John, it says that the Word of God will last
> forever. I have many books that I can copy and paste from that will prove
> to all, that the 66 books that make up the one and only words of God, is
> the Word that will last forever, like 1 John says. I look directly to
> Jesus and his word and that is it, and I have joy, peace, and a constant
> experience of happiness and warmth from the Lord that I could never put
> into words. I promise I will not write anything about any church, unless I
> take it from very knowledgable sources, and I will paste it right here,
> with the proper documentation and APA style. You can make up your own
> minds, from works that I have that go back centuries. That will be much
> better for you to read so you cannot say that I am just saying what I hear
> people say. What I say from now on, will come from some of the best Bible
> and church scollars of the church, who have traced the church from the
> first century to the present. I have much work I could paste right here,
> just how much the popes and councils have changed their minds over the
> centuries. This does come from books written about church history, but I
> do not have the exact pages ready. From now on, I promise I will paste
> what is in these books from very renoun scholars. Do you know that it was
> not until the 11th century until priests were forbidden to marry! That was
> decided in a council. They married all the way to the 10 hundreds. Until
> the 70s, it was a sin to eat meat on Fridays, and this was done away with
> in a council. I am not just talking about the catholic church at all! I am
> talking about all churches, and how imperfect they are, to show that only
> Jesus has the last word that we get through the Holy Spirit and through
> his Word and that is it. I want all to understand that I talk about all
> churches, not just the Catholic church. That is where I was misunderstood.
> All church groups are not perfect, because people are not perfect. It is
> only hearing directly from Jesus through the Holey Spirit, and through his
> perfect word, that you will always get the truth, the whole truth, and
> nothing but the truth. The Holy Spirit is God Himself,who lives right in
> us. We are guided by the Holy Spirit 24/7. I will very quickly say that
> all other churches have not stuck to what they agreed on either. That is
> why Jesus is perfect, and all must go to him for the full truth, not to
> any church or any human. Humans did get me into the word of God, and going
> to church Got me prepared to study the church and all writings, so I could
> answer on my own why I believe what I believe. You see, the church got me
> started on my journey, But once church got me started, I do not believe
> anything, unless it comes directly from the Bible. I listen to preachers
> on TV, and I can say, That is not in the Bible, That is in the Bible in
> Romans chapter 8 and so on. I know right away if a human preacher is
> saying something that is biblical or not. That comes from thirsting after
> the word of God just like food if you are starving. Do you guys know the
> gift of salvation his been sold through the most terrible ways, it made
> Luther sick? Do you know that Many churches have gay ministers when the
> Bible says that it is an abomination to God. This is why the church is
> imperfect skum, because it is run by sinning skum human beeings. Only God,
> himself is perfect and constant. I say this in love, because I have so
> much peace, and I want you to have that 24/7, not just when you are in
> church. The first thing that people ask me is what religion I am. Here is
> my answer: I say that I am a follower of Jesus Christ or a disciple of
> Christ LOL. They are silent for a minute LOL! They do not know what to say
> to that LOL! They are looking for an answer like Baptist, Luthorin,
> Catholic, or something like that. When I say simpley a follower of Jesus
> Christ, they do not know what to do with that LOL! You see, The Word
> Christian is not used until Acts chapter 12, and it was unbelievers who
> gave them that name. up until then, you were a follower or disciple of
> Jesus Christ, and it was that simple LOL! There were not Luthorins,
> Baptists, and so on LOL! You see, Christianity is not a religion at all.
> Biblical Christianity is putting your trust in Jesus Christ alone for your
> salvation, and having a very personal intimate relationship with him that
> lasts all day and every day, not just in a certain building called a
> church. That is it. That is it. Where does religion come into that. Is
> having a relationship with Jesus Christ a religion? All religions are
> based on our own human skum self-righteous works to work our way to God.
> That is not Christianity at all. My relationship with the Lord Jesus
> himself is 24/7. I wake up and pray to him. I pray to him when I turn on
> my computer that he will make it work. Church is in our lives for a
> reason, but it is not the all over all and in all. That is only Jesus
> Christ, himself, and I have the best experiences with God, one on one,
> right here in my living room. Church is a very small part of my
> relationship with Jesus Christ who gives me personally so much peace, and
> so many people walk up to me and tell me they see this peace in me. That
> comes from a lot more than a human church building. It comes from talking
> to Jesus himself, right here, in my chair LOL! I have the most wonderful
> experiences with God right here in my nice recliner LOL!
> That is it. From now on, I will copy and paste from church history books
> and from very major Bible scollars.
> God bless, all!
> David Moore
> If you want me to paste from the books I have, let me know!
> God bless, all.
> David Moore
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Jenny Keller via Faith-Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 10:20 PM
> To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
> Cc: Jenny Keller
> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Dilemma
>
> Hi,
>
> This is not just a comment about David, it is a comment for a lot of
> people.
>
> If people knew anything about Catholicism, they would know that that is
> the put the teaching of the church. It always has been, always will be.
> The gospel of Jesus Christ and the saving of us is through his blood has
> always been teaching in the Catholic Church. Those who don't know proper
> information don't realize that. And should read up with people who know
> what they're talking about before people decide that's not the truth.
>
> Most of my life I grew up thinking Catholics were going to hell. Did I
> have my suspicions, yes I did, but, I have had to learn that things have
> to be taken care of, watched over, such as that, that churches can get
> into big trouble when they're a Tonna mess and can do what they want.
>
> Just like a mother and her child, if the child makes a mistake, very
> serious mistake, that would possibly mean the end of someone's life we
> leave, spiritually, or your life, they must stop it. They must understand
> that they have to stop it before it becomes a huge cancer. I had my doubts
> about the Catholic Church for a long time, been in and out, but kind of
> stuff, but, they have never changed, their mass has never changed, they
> have not sold out their soul and their spirit to be the entertainment of
> all who come there.
>
> They have been and always will be the same, they're saying mass, nothing
> else like that will change. So, even though people don't like their
> traditions, that's their problem. And, back in the day, they did have
> their traditions. Even the apostles. They also have not change their views
> on things because it is politically correct.
>
> I have learned a lot about the role of the priest. It is not at all like
> what I thought it was, even up until recently. I have a great priest, who
> sits and talks to me about it. Not because he's trying to trap me in the
> church. But because I misunderstood.
>
> The Catholics aren't the Mormons. Or Jehovah's Witnesses. They don't trap
> anybody in there. They don't go probably four of them after they leave.
> They want you to stay but, they can't make you, and eventually, you will
> have to make those decisions on your own. And deal with them.
>
> If someone comes back, like I did, they are always a Catholic, it doesn't
> matter what we done, it doesn't matter where we've gone or how long. We
> are always Catholic. Yes, should we go to confession, absolutely, but, it
> still doesn't make us any less Catholic that we've gone made mistakes, and
> come back.
>
> And compassion, well, again, that are simply spiritual direction given to
> the priest by Christ himself. But the priest is still there. He's not
> possessed by Christ. So, whom ever teaches that that the priest becomes
> Christ, well, he does, Innoway, only because he is given the holy spirit
> spirit to be able to receive the words from Christ that we need to hear
> from Christ about our situations, not just a blanket of one.
>
> Anyhow, everybody has the right to believe whatever they do. I know that
> with all the faith that I have been in, dried, all that stuff, do I feel
> left out sometimes in the Catholic Church, yes, I do. But, I would rather
> feel left out in the Catholic Church teaches right doctor and then anyone
> else
>
> In fact, see if you can find a video of a confirmation ceremony and the
> Catholic Church. We are asked if we know Christ as our savior and do we
> recognize that his blood is their way of salvation. So, if you doubt me.
> Check on YouTube. Catholics are now encouraged to read the Bible. And,
> they can read any thing they want to. Even if the books that are used in
> the other versions of the Bible don't have the Latin books that are extra
> in the Bible that were originally there, from the Latin fact. Or, they
> want to read their own, that's up to them. As long as they're studying the
> Gospel. It doesn't matter.
>
> Before you get into there is no adding of books blah blah blah, again,
> nobody really knows how many books, etc., there really is. So, there are
> exactly examples of the books in the Bible better in the Catholic version
> with the apocrypha. It is absolutely proven.
>
> The final thing but I will say to David and everyone else that are
> skeptical, go read the daily readings of the Catholic mass, the gospel is
> there, and the epistles are there. Dar. If that's the case oh really, we
> don't believe in the gospel? Seriously, get your information Wright.
>
>
> Jenny
>
>> On Jun 25, 2017, at 6:02 PM, David Moore via Faith-Talk
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I am sorry, but I have to comment here!
>> You said to go where you like! There is only one way to God, and that is
>> faith and only faith in the saving blood of Christ. We must attend a
>> congragation who teaches that. We need to know the gospel of the Bible
>> first, and then look for a group that teaches what the Bible teaches. You
>> cannot go to where you like! You must go to where the true and only the
>> true Word of God is preached. This is where so many people get messed up.
>> The Bible comes first, and then the group you seek grounds you in that
>> only Word of God!
>> David Moore
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: Debby Phillips via Faith-Talk
>> Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 9:47 AM
>> To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
>> Cc: Debby Phillips
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-talk] Dilemma
>>
>> It seems to me that you like the webinars and like the people there. I
>> guess if it was me I would go to the Latin Mass. I don't know much about
>> the Orthodox or eastern right catholic churches, except that everything
>> might be in Greek LOL. Well I've got to go. But I would stick with what
>> you like
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 25, 2017, at 2:55 AM, Jenny Keller via Faith-Talk
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi there, I just found an Orthodox Catholic church, which is completely
>>> in line with the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not sure if it is in the
>>> Roman church is jurisdiction. So, I'm going to wait till Monday to find
>>> out. However, my friend only go to certain churches. And I am
>>> uncomfortable asking them to go to another church. It's a little bit
>>> farther away.
>>>
>>> I either have a choice between the Latin mass, which I like, still
>>> learning though, or, the regular Catholic Church. That does English.
>>> That rushes. Anyhow, I'm just not sure. I don't know how big the
>>> catholic Orthodox churches. But, I know they're in line with the if the
>>> pope.
>>>
>>> I have an app called OneParish, and it is in there. So, I don't know,
>>> going to call the priest on Monday. So, what do you figure out what to
>>> do. I want to see if I can get a ride from somebody there. I'm about 5
>>> 1/2 minutes from there. So, it's going to be interesting. If it's going
>>> to be a major deal with my friend, then, I would rather go ahead and go
>>> to the churches they go to. They have a Saturday mass as well. So, it
>>> depends heart. I want to be careful and want to make sure that my
>>> friends don't have to go out of their way. They would. But I'm
>>> uncomfortable just putting more on them. Talk to you later. But, want to
>>> know what you think.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jenny
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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