[Faith-Talk] South Carolina avenue, Christ in Truth

Sat Dec 21 02:21:15 UTC 2019

Well, thank you all for attempting to share with me your perception of
Christmas etc. I appreciate you taking turns on that. Nonetheless,
that still, in my opinion, doesn’t give you the right to attribute the
Nativity with pagan origins. What you say may apparently sound good
but, Jesus hasn’t commanded you to do so. In addition, he never said
to anyone I am God. He has been called, Rabbi, Teacher and Lord. Lord
has a figurative entailment though. So, for instance, the British
parliament is called house of Lords. Does that mean it’s the house of
Gods? Someone has to be pathetically dumbstricken to presume so. Allah
has given us plain intellects to thoroughly cogitate with. Why would
Jesus palter about his divine status? Had he been absolutely exalted,
he would have stated that explicitly. Hasn’t Jesus fell on his face in
prayer? Hasn’t he prayed at dawn? Muslims do both. That what makes him
a Muslim prophet. He came with the message of Monotheism as those who
were before him. That’s why when he was asked about the greatest
commandment, he said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first
and greatest commandment.” So, had he been genuinely divine, he would
have just revealed this to the questioner. I quote the subsequent
segment of Mark 12 29, Jesus says, answering the same question about
the greatest commandment, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord
is one.” Now, had he been divine or the mid character of a triune
being, he would have just stated it. Now folks, I am not here to stark
an argument, provoke you or cause a stir. I just urge you to sternly
ponder onto the intriguing conclusions I drew out of this. I was
demanded to read the Bible by some Arabic missionary activists. I read
it and that’s what I found. Jesus speaks of Monotheism while others
falsely attribute divinity to him. Even the situation of Thomas when
he uttered, my God my Lord, he exclaimed out of awe, reverence to God
because Jesus has done something miraculous before him. Does God
perform miracles? If yes, he would have not been God then. Miracles
are incredible acts that are carried out by individuals with the Will
of Allah to prove their proclamation of prophethood. God doesn’t
perform miracles. God does anything and it wouldn’t b seen as unusual
or exceptional. But, if a human brings dead to life, walks on the
water surface etc, he indeed comes with miraculous acts, then it’s God
Whom shall we glorify, not the one that God allowed him temporarily,
to do unusual things. That’s my simplified idea, in a nutshell. Thanks
for reading, adieu.

On 12/20/19, BRUCE&JOY BRESLAUER <breslauerj at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mustafa,
>
> I think you have asked some good questions, but this list is not the list on
>
> which to debate them.  I can give you my idea of some short answers to your
>
> questions, but in so doing, I would not be trying to convince you of the
> rightness of my thinking or the wrongness of yours.  It would be just one
> person's explanation of their faith, and even members of the same faith
> disagree on some things.  My faith is very important to me, as yours is to
> you.
> It defines my life and how I live it.  It teaches me to love my friends and
> my
> enemies, to pray for those, and to treat others with the same respect and
> kindness with which I would like to be treated, especially others with whom
> I
> disagree.
>
> Many people have come from many different lands to settle in America, and in
> so
> doing, have made it a great country.  They have brought their traditions
> with
> them, many of which are Christmas traditions.  The Christmas tree is a
> popular
> symbol of Christmas because it is an evergreen tree, meaning it stays green
> all
> the time, reminding us of the eternal life we have in Jesus Christ.  Many of
>
> the Christian traditions around gift giving have evolved because God gave us
>
> the gift of Christ.  Many of the hymns and songs we sing at Christmas came
> here
> from other countries.  I also lament the secularization and cheapening of
> the
> Christmas celebration, but that doesn't stop me from keeping it in my own
> heart
> and home.
>
> I think we all know that Jesus was not born on December 25, but the fact
> that
> He was born at all is what we celebrate.  Even that wouldn't be out of the
> ordinary if he wasn't born of a virgin, which under normal circumstances
> would
> not be possible, or if he had not risen from the dead after he was killed
> and
> put in a tomb.  The miracle of Christmas is what we celebrate.  The fact
> that
> Jesus is God is what we celebrate.
>
> May you all have a blessed day, and a merry Christmas season.  Joy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mustafa Almahdy <against.trump2001 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:07 AM
> To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: BRUCE&JOY BRESLAUER <breslauerj at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Faith-Talk] South Carolina avenue, Christ in Truth
>
> Well, Joy, I haven't brought these biblical quotes out of my own. This is
> the
> text of the book which you allegedly hold up to. What does it mean, when in
>
> Mark 1:35, it says,  "In the early morning, while it was still dark, Jesus
> got
> up, left the house, and went away to a secluded place, and was praying
> there."
> Why would God implore in a solitary region? Incidentally, do you know who
> nowadays pray regularly at dawn?
> They're Muslims. Why do you consider engaging with me to be somewhat
> hazardous?
> Aren't you sufficiently confident of what you believe? I firmly have entered
>
> into descisive debates with haters of Islam. I have done so because my faith
> is
> quite significant for me. Faith resembles a major factor of my everyday
> life.
> Nonetheless, it seems that at the faith talk discussion board, blindness is
>
> more substantial. I have included in the blind carbon copy field contact
> information of various pastors. I'd like to ask them, what made the Church
> tolerant with  celebrating  the birthday of Mithra, a Romanic idol as the
> one
> of Christ? As everyone knows, Christmas origin dates to pagan tradition.
> Thence, within the historical process, Christmas tree, cake, cards, carols
> and
> so on have gradually been embraced as an essential part of this
> controversial
> occasion. I thence demand an answer to this critical concern. I have the
> right
> to sternly take up this stance. Jesus is one of the mightiest apostles of
> Islam. I therefore have the right to robustly interrogate those who intently
>
> alter the genuine Nativity tale. It is wholly narrated in the sacred
> scripture
> of the Koran called Mary. Allah has willingly created Jesus in the womb of
> virgin Mary, without any masculine intervention. Isn't He glory be to Him
> indeed capable of all things? Islam is the religion of Jesus and Christendom
> is
> just the one about him. Why do you feel offended as the truth speaks out?
> Well,
> it's already there, in the Bible that you swear in with, so, watch out.
>
> On 12/17/19, BRUCE&JOY BRESLAUER via Faith-Talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> Why are you on this list?
>>
>> You are speaking the truth as you see it.  We Christians speak the
>> truth as we see it.  Each of us thinks we have been given our
>> information from God.  You
>>
>> think we are wrong.  We think you are wrong.  There will be no meeting
>> of the minds, especially if you persist in your warped perception of
>> Christianity.
>>
>> Anyway, as you have been told many times, this is not the place to
>> discuss it.
>>
>> I urge you to stop.  I thought at one time I might be able to engage
>> you in
>>
>> some meaningful dialogue with short responses to your questions, but I
>> have
>>
>> changed my mind.  No one on this list will risk dialogue with you
>> because this is not the list on which to do it.
>>
>> If blindness is not your thing, then find another list.  Joy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Faith-Talk <faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mustafa
>> Almahdy via Faith-Talk
>> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 4:59 PM
>> To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Mustafa Almahdy <against.trump2001 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-Talk] South Carolina avenue, Christ in Truth
>>
>> I'd like to make it clear to everyone here, that I am not suppose to
>> talk about blindness unless I have proper motive to do so. For me,
>> before being blind, I am a theologist who knows about both, Islam and
>> Christianity. I'd like to add some points to my previous rebuttal.
>> Although the story of Adam and Eve is mentioned in Genesis, the
>> current concept of Original Sin as known by Christians has been later
>> developed by Saul of Tarsus whom Christians today refer to as, Saint
>> Paul. This concept is basically the backbone of Christian faith as we
>> know it today. Unlike the Koran, the Bible is thought to be divided to
>> Old and New Testaments. In the Old Testament, God is clearly one and
>> such concepts of Jesus being divine, the Trinity etc,
>>
>> haven't been mentioned there. True, Christian apologists
>> unsuccessfully attempt to strangely interpret things like, let's make
>> man in our immage and so on,
>>
>> still, that doesn't explicitly speak of what has been later inserted
>> by Paul
>>
>> and other authors. There are 29 verse of Jesus praying throughout the
>> parables.
>> I just don't know folks, where could I go with Luke 6:12 as it says:
>> "It was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray, and He
>> spent the whole night in prayer to God." How could he be divine
>> afterward? How are you folks
>>
>> able to intently dispose of such plain evidence and falsely  stick to
>> what is implicitly construed? It is quite odd for me to be deceitful
>> of myself as such.
>> Jesus has been plainly portrayed as someone who devotes himself to
>> submit in
>>
>> full recognition and obeisance to Allah glory be to Him. Had he been
>> divine, he would have not demanded to implore onto the most High. At
>> his time of cataclysm, he prayed onto his Lord to help him. In Matthew
>> 26:39, Jesus
>> says:
>> "And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed,
>> saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet
>> not as I will, but as You will." Is this the disposal of an exalted
>> being? Muslims therefore believe, that Jesus, peace be upon him was
>> sent to people by God to deliver His message to them. That was the
>> same mission of Moses, David, Solomon, John, Zechariah, Noah, Abraham,
>> Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob and so on. Implicit in that, Islam is the
>> religion of all those prophets, as they have been sealed by Muhammad,
>> peace and blessings be upon him. In Islam, God doesn't need someone to
>> die on the Cross to forgive us. He glory be to Him is providentially
>> Omnipotent  and eminently Self-sufficient to do so. The Christian
>> concept of redemption is intellectually purblind. As plainly stated in
>> the parables, Jesus has unappeasably implored to God in seclusion.
>> That's the common temperament of the pious. He thence couldn't be
>> worshipping and being worshipped simultaneously. I urge you folks to
>> seek
>>
>> the truth and deferentially comply to it. Despite the consequences,
>> truth is
>>
>> loud and worthy to be unconditionally consecrated. Let us just be
>> impartial as we view such critical matters.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/15/19, Mustafa Almahdy via Faith-Talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> Well, blindness doesn't resemble a major element of my life. I am not
>>> used to speak, blindness blindness. Faith is rather a crucial factor
>>> of my life.
>>>
>>> On 12/15/19, David Andrews via Faith-Talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> The key words there are faith and blindness -- not just faith.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> At 11:21 PM 12/14/2019, you wrote:
>>>>>Well, David, the threat of removing me for speaking briefly about my
>>>>>religion is not delineated in the listâ?Ts major guidelines. On the
>>>>>listâ?Ts info page, it says this:
>>>>>â?oFaith-talk is a list where people can discuss matters related to
>>>>>faith and/or blindness.
>>>>>Persons of all faiths are welcome.â?  It never conditioned specific
>>>>>subjects not to be discussed as long as they fit in these two main
>>>>>categories, faith, and, blindness. So, donâ?Tt threaten me with
>>>>>removing me, just do it if you want to. I simply donâ?Tt appreciate
>>>>>such tone, clear? Well again, Jesus said, I am the way to the Father.
>>>>>He also said, I and the Father are one. Both mean the same thing my
>>>>>dear. Did he ever say, I and the Father are the same. Jesus is the
>>>>>only way to the Father, and so, is Muhammad, Moses, David, Solomon,
>>>>>Noah, Abraham, Lot etc etc. They all came to us with the same
>>>>>message, calling people to worship God alone. In Islam, God is
>>>>>providentially Omnipotent. He thence is able to forgive us, without
>>>>>the need to formulate this dramatic scenario. People are not
>>>>>expected to be perfect. They just need to do their best to get
>>>>>morally elicited and to spiritually be elevated, gradually bit by
>>>>>bit until they reach up to the celestial realm. I urge you once
>>>>>again, to make sure that you type the name of prophet Muhammad
>>>>>correctly. Youâ?Tve misspelled it twice and I dislike to assume that
>>>>>of being somewhat deliberate. So, based on what Jesus said and did,
>>>>>in the Bible you wholly hold up to, he simply cannot be God.
>>>>>Thatâ?Ts why, Christians constantly demand to methodologically
>>>>>palter as it comes to this critical concern. How could we explain
>>>>>then my dear, Jesus implores to God, on multiple occasions
>>>>>throughout the parables. Well, here are some quotes of that.
>>>>>Hebrews 5:7, â?oIn the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers
>>>>>and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save
>>>>>Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety.â?  Three
>>>>>questions here, first, if he is truly divine, why was he praying
>>>>>then? Second, How could he be described as pious if he is divine?
>>>>>Third, if he is divine indeed, why was
>>>>>he yelling for redemption?    Well, here is
>>>>>another quote: â?oMatthew 14:23, â?oAfter He had sent the crowds
>>>>>away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was
>>>>>evening, He was there alone.â?  Well, my question here is, does God
>>>>>need to unfeignedly implore in seclusion? Just call it a day folks,
>>>>>itâ?Ts either black or white. Jesus cannot be human and divine at
>>>>>the same time. That just cannot be discerned. You will tell me then,
>>>>>well, God can do whatever he wants eh? Well, can he die? Can God die?
>>>>>According to you, yes. But, if he is fully capable of doing
>>>>>anything, why couldnâ?Tt he just forgive us? In Islam, when Adam and
>>>>>Eve sinned, God taught them how to repent and they have been
>>>>>forgiven, simple, easy and straightforward. God is all wise and he
>>>>>doesnâ?Tt do things that are quite illogical and meaningless. Can
>>>>>God oppress someone? According to your eccentric narrative of the
>>>>>tale, he actuallly has done. When he sacrificed the innocent on the
>>>>>behalf of the guilty. He thence ordains us of maintaining justice.
>>>>>How is that possibly conciliated? As you guys can see, the matter
>>>>>here exacerbates. I genuinely do not destine to provoke or offend
>>>>>anyone here. I just urge people to ponder in the light of what the
>>>>>scripture has actually taught. Lastly, kindly, if Iâ?Tll be
>>>>>unsubscribed for whatever motive, just keep me noticed in advanced,
>>>>>thank you. On 12/15/19, David Moore via Faith-Talk
>>>>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote: > What about Jesus saying in John 14
>>>>>where Jesus says, > â?oI am the way, the truth, and the life. No man
>>>>> comes
>>>>>to the Father but by > me!
>>>>>> That sure sounds like Jesus is God himself to me! > What does that
>>>>>mean to you? > How this in Acts chapter 4; > Salvation is found in
>>>>>nobody else, for there is no other name under Heaven, > given to man
>>>>>by which one must be saved! > What does that mean to you? > Next,
>>>>>did Muhamad rise from the dead for you to be your advocate in heaven
>>>>>> between you and the Father? > Do you believe you need to be
>>>>>perfect to enter Heaven! > Scripture says that none of us our
>>>>>perfect. > That is why we need a savior to forgive all of our sins!
>>>>>> We need every sin forgiven, scripture says, to enter heaven! >
>>>>>Islam just does not jive with these scriptures, show me how it does!
>>>>>> David Moore > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >
>>>>>From: Mustafa Almahdy via Faith-Talk > Sent:
>>>>>Saturday, December 14, 2019 7:24 AM > To:
>>>>>debbiedrylie at gmail.com; moore at donaldmoore.org; >
>>>>>dlgoza at jeffersonbaptist.org; erickelly at bellsouth.net;
>>>>>a.bentson at comcast.net; > vance.jenkins at bsumc.com;
>>>>>beverly.clapp at bsumc.com; joyce.ford at bsumc.com; >
>>>>>robpowl306 at gmail.com; chris.malaska at bsumc.com;
>>>>>stacy.phillips at bsumc.com; > debbie.friddle at bsumc.com;
>>>>>faithfreedom2 at gmail.com; faith-talk at nfbnet.org; >
>>>>>kbaggett at brainerdbaptist.org; adooley at ebcjackson.org; >
>>>>>amanda.poff at nashvillefirst.org;
>>>>>tom.crow at nashvillefirst.org; >
>>>>>kelly.ablaza at longhollow.com;
>>>>>mike.anthony at longhollow.com; >
>>>>>onecrowsnest at gmail.com; josh.hrbc at gmail.com; hrbcmusic at gmail.com; >
>>>>>wandawiles at charter.net; lee3066 at bellsouth.net > Cc: Mustafa Almahdy
>>>>>>
>>>>>Subject: [Faith-Talk] South Carolina avenue, Christ in Truth > > On
>>>>>each and every Sunday, Christians around the world gather at >
>>>>>Churches to glorify Christ. They consider him deified.
>>>>>Nonetheless, he > never expressed that about himself explicitly. It
>>>>>is immensely > perilous to lay Christians to dig into the Bible
>>>>>themselves because > it's most unlikely that they'll find Jesus
>>>>>enjoining people to worship > him. There are two main set of
>>>>>statements regarding Jesus's > phraseology in the scripture.
>>>>>Explicit and implicit statements.
>>>>>What > is an explicit statement? It is what has been stated plainly,
>>>>>readily > observable, leaving nothing to implication. Such as Jesus
>>>>>saying in > John 3:17:; "Now this is eternal life, that they know
>>>>>you, the only > true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." So
>>>>>here, Jesus > clearly acknowledges divinity and monotheism to the
>>>>>One and true God > and declares himself being sent by Him to convey
>>>>>His message to > people. Then, we have implicit statements, whereas
>>>>>some of them are > allegedly attributed to Jesus or possibly
>>>>>misconstrued by some > apologists for essentially systematic theology
>>>>>motives.
>>>>>Such as Jesus > saying in John 10:30; "I and the Father are one".
>>>>>Christian apologists > assert he has meant they are one in entity
>>>>>while the text > presumptively entails they are one in identity.
>>>>>Another instance, > where Jesus explicitly distinguishes between
>>>>>himself and God. Jesus > says in John 8:40; "As it is, you are
>>>>>looking for a way to kill me, a > man who has told you the truth
>>>>>that I heard from God." According to > the Bible you wholly hold up
>>>>>to, this was Jesus speaking to the Jews. > This particular passage
>>>>>has three crucial messages to catch. First > off, Jesus declared
>>>>>that Jews attempted to kill him. Thence, I > actually don't fathom
>>>>>the awkward relationship today between those who > allegedly are the
>>>>>followers of Jesus and those who, according to > scripture, were
>>>>>sternly hostile to him. Second, Jesus unambiguously > stated that he
>>>>>is a man who heard the word of God and destined to pass > it through
>>>>>to people. He didn't say I am God in man incarnate or any > of that.
>>>>>So, the personification of the divine in the character of > Jesus is
>>>>>a later developed doctrine called the Hypostatic union. It is >
>>>>>interesting to note, that historically, this particular doctrine has
>>>>>> only been prefaced at the Council of Chalcedon in the year (451).
>>>>>> >
>>>>>Consequently, it is demonstratively fallacious to embrace such tenet
>>>>>> as it has been decisively probed to be absolutely mendacious. >
>>>>>Moreover, according to your own version of the Bible, in English,
>>>>>the
>>>>>> description of Jesus's mission precisely befits the definition of
>>>>>> >
>>>>>prophethood in Islam. Third, Jesus says he heard the truth from God.
>>>>>> So, what is it? It is the message that he plainly stated in John
>>>>>3:17 > as quoted above.
>>>>>Furthermore, Jesus spoke the truth as he delivered > the message to
>>>>>a tremendous croud as he uttered a magnanimous speech > known
>>>>>biblically as sermon on the mount. In this major discourse, he >
>>>>>taught the public what is biblically known as the Lord's prayer. If
>>>>>> you Read this, while parallelly citing the opening of the Koran >
>>>>>translated into English, you will discover a gravely unexpected >
>>>>>similarity. I won't be taken aback, because it is yet the same
>>>>>message > of Monotheism. Jesus implored to God.
>>>>>If he was himself God, it would > have been quite irrational of
>>>>>Jesus praying to himself. I urge > pastoral staff and their loyally
>>>>>fellow congregants, to unfeignedly > seek the truth regarding
>>>>>Jesus's solely spoken word in the Gospel. > Trust me, after I read
>>>>>the Bible many times, my faith and conviction > of Islam being the
>>>>>true pathway to the celestial realm has > strengthened leastwise two
>>>>>fold. I do hope that you find this message > to you encouraging not
>>>>>frustrating. It is not my nature to deride or > marginalise
>>>>>someone's belief. Please, read the whole gospel and > earnestly seek
>>>>>to find what Jesus says in it. I do not recognise the > words spoken
>>>>>by Paul or others about Jesus. I only care about what was > directly
>>>>> spoken
>>>>>by Jesus.
>>>>>The essence of this message is quite plain. > Find the truth and
>>>>>stick to it. I wholeheartedly say to you, If I knew > that
>>>>>Christianity is indeed the truth and only path to salvation, I >
>>>>>would have unhesitatingly embraced it. This is not a joke nor it
>>>>>bears > to be. > > _______________________________________________ >
>>>>>  Faith-Talk mailing list > Faith-Talk at nfbnet.org >
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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