[Faith-Talk] South Carolina avenue, Christ in Truth

Sat Dec 21 02:44:29 UTC 2019

Hii never  usually say anything but the thing is this Jesus  did
perform many mearicles. these mearicles are found  through out the 4
gospels mathew mark luke and john.  Jesus had the power to  do things
through the holy spirit.

On 12/20/19, Mustafa Almahdy via Faith-Talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Well, thank you all for attempting to share with me your perception of
> Christmas etc. I appreciate you taking turns on that. Nonetheless,
> that still, in my opinion, doesn’t give you the right to attribute the
> Nativity with pagan origins. What you say may apparently sound good
> but, Jesus hasn’t commanded you to do so. In addition, he never said
> to anyone I am God. He has been called, Rabbi, Teacher and Lord. Lord
> has a figurative entailment though. So, for instance, the British
> parliament is called house of Lords. Does that mean it’s the house of
> Gods? Someone has to be pathetically dumbstricken to presume so. Allah
> has given us plain intellects to thoroughly cogitate with. Why would
> Jesus palter about his divine status? Had he been absolutely exalted,
> he would have stated that explicitly. Hasn’t Jesus fell on his face in
> prayer? Hasn’t he prayed at dawn? Muslims do both. That what makes him
> a Muslim prophet. He came with the message of Monotheism as those who
> were before him. That’s why when he was asked about the greatest
> commandment, he said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
> heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first
> and greatest commandment.” So, had he been genuinely divine, he would
> have just revealed this to the questioner. I quote the subsequent
> segment of Mark 12 29, Jesus says, answering the same question about
> the greatest commandment, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord
> is one.” Now, had he been divine or the mid character of a triune
> being, he would have just stated it. Now folks, I am not here to stark
> an argument, provoke you or cause a stir. I just urge you to sternly
> ponder onto the intriguing conclusions I drew out of this. I was
> demanded to read the Bible by some Arabic missionary activists. I read
> it and that’s what I found. Jesus speaks of Monotheism while others
> falsely attribute divinity to him. Even the situation of Thomas when
> he uttered, my God my Lord, he exclaimed out of awe, reverence to God
> because Jesus has done something miraculous before him. Does God
> perform miracles? If yes, he would have not been God then. Miracles
> are incredible acts that are carried out by individuals with the Will
> of Allah to prove their proclamation of prophethood. God doesn’t
> perform miracles. God does anything and it wouldn’t b seen as unusual
> or exceptional. But, if a human brings dead to life, walks on the
> water surface etc, he indeed comes with miraculous acts, then it’s God
> Whom shall we glorify, not the one that God allowed him temporarily,
> to do unusual things. That’s my simplified idea, in a nutshell. Thanks
> for reading, adieu.
>
>
>
>
> On 12/20/19, BRUCE&JOY BRESLAUER <breslauerj at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mustafa,
>>
>> I think you have asked some good questions, but this list is not the list
>> on
>>
>> which to debate them.  I can give you my idea of some short answers to
>> your
>>
>> questions, but in so doing, I would not be trying to convince you of the
>> rightness of my thinking or the wrongness of yours.  It would be just one
>> person's explanation of their faith, and even members of the same faith
>> disagree on some things.  My faith is very important to me, as yours is to
>> you.
>> It defines my life and how I live it.  It teaches me to love my friends
>> and
>> my
>> enemies, to pray for those, and to treat others with the same respect and
>> kindness with which I would like to be treated, especially others with
>> whom
>> I
>> disagree.
>>
>> Many people have come from many different lands to settle in America, and
>> in
>> so
>> doing, have made it a great country.  They have brought their traditions
>> with
>> them, many of which are Christmas traditions.  The Christmas tree is a
>> popular
>> symbol of Christmas because it is an evergreen tree, meaning it stays
>> green
>> all
>> the time, reminding us of the eternal life we have in Jesus Christ.  Many
>> of
>>
>> the Christian traditions around gift giving have evolved because God gave
>> us
>>
>> the gift of Christ.  Many of the hymns and songs we sing at Christmas came
>> here
>> from other countries.  I also lament the secularization and cheapening of
>> the
>> Christmas celebration, but that doesn't stop me from keeping it in my own
>> heart
>> and home.
>>
>> I think we all know that Jesus was not born on December 25, but the fact
>> that
>> He was born at all is what we celebrate.  Even that wouldn't be out of the
>> ordinary if he wasn't born of a virgin, which under normal circumstances
>> would
>> not be possible, or if he had not risen from the dead after he was killed
>> and
>> put in a tomb.  The miracle of Christmas is what we celebrate.  The fact
>> that
>> Jesus is God is what we celebrate.
>>
>> May you all have a blessed day, and a merry Christmas season.  Joy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mustafa Almahdy <against.trump2001 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 9:07 AM
>> To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: BRUCE&JOY BRESLAUER <breslauerj at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Faith-Talk] South Carolina avenue, Christ in Truth
>>
>> Well, Joy, I haven't brought these biblical quotes out of my own. This is
>> the
>> text of the book which you allegedly hold up to. What does it mean, when
>> in
>>
>> Mark 1:35, it says,  "In the early morning, while it was still dark, Jesus
>> got
>> up, left the house, and went away to a secluded place, and was praying
>> there."
>> Why would God implore in a solitary region? Incidentally, do you know who
>> nowadays pray regularly at dawn?
>> They're Muslims. Why do you consider engaging with me to be somewhat
>> hazardous?
>> Aren't you sufficiently confident of what you believe? I firmly have
>> entered
>>
>> into descisive debates with haters of Islam. I have done so because my
>> faith
>> is
>> quite significant for me. Faith resembles a major factor of my everyday
>> life.
>> Nonetheless, it seems that at the faith talk discussion board, blindness
>> is
>>
>> more substantial. I have included in the blind carbon copy field contact
>> information of various pastors. I'd like to ask them, what made the Church
>> tolerant with  celebrating  the birthday of Mithra, a Romanic idol as the
>> one
>> of Christ? As everyone knows, Christmas origin dates to pagan tradition.
>> Thence, within the historical process, Christmas tree, cake, cards, carols
>> and
>> so on have gradually been embraced as an essential part of this
>> controversial
>> occasion. I thence demand an answer to this critical concern. I have the
>> right
>> to sternly take up this stance. Jesus is one of the mightiest apostles of
>> Islam. I therefore have the right to robustly interrogate those who
>> intently
>>
>> alter the genuine Nativity tale. It is wholly narrated in the sacred
>> scripture
>> of the Koran called Mary. Allah has willingly created Jesus in the womb of
>> virgin Mary, without any masculine intervention. Isn't He glory be to Him
>> indeed capable of all things? Islam is the religion of Jesus and
>> Christendom
>> is
>> just the one about him. Why do you feel offended as the truth speaks out?
>> Well,
>> it's already there, in the Bible that you swear in with, so, watch out.
>>
>> On 12/17/19, BRUCE&JOY BRESLAUER via Faith-Talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> Why are you on this list?
>>>
>>> You are speaking the truth as you see it.  We Christians speak the
>>> truth as we see it.  Each of us thinks we have been given our
>>> information from God.  You
>>>
>>> think we are wrong.  We think you are wrong.  There will be no meeting
>>> of the minds, especially if you persist in your warped perception of
>>> Christianity.
>>>
>>> Anyway, as you have been told many times, this is not the place to
>>> discuss it.
>>>
>>> I urge you to stop.  I thought at one time I might be able to engage
>>> you in
>>>
>>> some meaningful dialogue with short responses to your questions, but I
>>> have
>>>
>>> changed my mind.  No one on this list will risk dialogue with you
>>> because this is not the list on which to do it.
>>>
>>> If blindness is not your thing, then find another list.  Joy
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Faith-Talk <faith-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Mustafa
>>> Almahdy via Faith-Talk
>>> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 4:59 PM
>>> To: Faith-talk, for the discussion of Blindness in faith and religion
>>> <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Mustafa Almahdy <against.trump2001 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Faith-Talk] South Carolina avenue, Christ in Truth
>>>
>>> I'd like to make it clear to everyone here, that I am not suppose to
>>> talk about blindness unless I have proper motive to do so. For me,
>>> before being blind, I am a theologist who knows about both, Islam and
>>> Christianity. I'd like to add some points to my previous rebuttal.
>>> Although the story of Adam and Eve is mentioned in Genesis, the
>>> current concept of Original Sin as known by Christians has been later
>>> developed by Saul of Tarsus whom Christians today refer to as, Saint
>>> Paul. This concept is basically the backbone of Christian faith as we
>>> know it today. Unlike the Koran, the Bible is thought to be divided to
>>> Old and New Testaments. In the Old Testament, God is clearly one and
>>> such concepts of Jesus being divine, the Trinity etc,
>>>
>>> haven't been mentioned there. True, Christian apologists
>>> unsuccessfully attempt to strangely interpret things like, let's make
>>> man in our immage and so on,
>>>
>>> still, that doesn't explicitly speak of what has been later inserted
>>> by Paul
>>>
>>> and other authors. There are 29 verse of Jesus praying throughout the
>>> parables.
>>> I just don't know folks, where could I go with Luke 6:12 as it says:
>>> "It was at this time that He went off to the mountain to pray, and He
>>> spent the whole night in prayer to God." How could he be divine
>>> afterward? How are you folks
>>>
>>> able to intently dispose of such plain evidence and falsely  stick to
>>> what is implicitly construed? It is quite odd for me to be deceitful
>>> of myself as such.
>>> Jesus has been plainly portrayed as someone who devotes himself to
>>> submit in
>>>
>>> full recognition and obeisance to Allah glory be to Him. Had he been
>>> divine, he would have not demanded to implore onto the most High. At
>>> his time of cataclysm, he prayed onto his Lord to help him. In Matthew
>>> 26:39, Jesus
>>> says:
>>> "And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed,
>>> saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet
>>> not as I will, but as You will." Is this the disposal of an exalted
>>> being? Muslims therefore believe, that Jesus, peace be upon him was
>>> sent to people by God to deliver His message to them. That was the
>>> same mission of Moses, David, Solomon, John, Zechariah, Noah, Abraham,
>>> Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob and so on. Implicit in that, Islam is the
>>> religion of all those prophets, as they have been sealed by Muhammad,
>>> peace and blessings be upon him. In Islam, God doesn't need someone to
>>> die on the Cross to forgive us. He glory be to Him is providentially
>>> Omnipotent  and eminently Self-sufficient to do so. The Christian
>>> concept of redemption is intellectually purblind. As plainly stated in
>>> the parables, Jesus has unappeasably implored to God in seclusion.
>>> That's the common temperament of the pious. He thence couldn't be
>>> worshipping and being worshipped simultaneously. I urge you folks to
>>> seek
>>>
>>> the truth and deferentially comply to it. Despite the consequences,
>>> truth is
>>>
>>> loud and worthy to be unconditionally consecrated. Let us just be
>>> impartial as we view such critical matters.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/15/19, Mustafa Almahdy via Faith-Talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Well, blindness doesn't resemble a major element of my life. I am not
>>>> used to speak, blindness blindness. Faith is rather a crucial factor
>>>> of my life.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/15/19, David Andrews via Faith-Talk <faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> The key words there are faith and blindness -- not just faith.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> At 11:21 PM 12/14/2019, you wrote:
>>>>>>Well, David, the threat of removing me for speaking briefly about my
>>>>>>religion is not delineated in the listâ?Ts major guidelines. On the
>>>>>>listâ?Ts info page, it says this:
>>>>>>â?oFaith-talk is a list where people can discuss matters related to
>>>>>>faith and/or blindness.
>>>>>>Persons of all faiths are welcome.â?  It never conditioned specific
>>>>>>subjects not to be discussed as long as they fit in these two main
>>>>>>categories, faith, and, blindness. So, donâ?Tt threaten me with
>>>>>>removing me, just do it if you want to. I simply donâ?Tt appreciate
>>>>>>such tone, clear? Well again, Jesus said, I am the way to the Father.
>>>>>>He also said, I and the Father are one. Both mean the same thing my
>>>>>>dear. Did he ever say, I and the Father are the same. Jesus is the
>>>>>>only way to the Father, and so, is Muhammad, Moses, David, Solomon,
>>>>>>Noah, Abraham, Lot etc etc. They all came to us with the same
>>>>>>message, calling people to worship God alone. In Islam, God is
>>>>>>providentially Omnipotent. He thence is able to forgive us, without
>>>>>>the need to formulate this dramatic scenario. People are not
>>>>>>expected to be perfect. They just need to do their best to get
>>>>>>morally elicited and to spiritually be elevated, gradually bit by
>>>>>>bit until they reach up to the celestial realm. I urge you once
>>>>>>again, to make sure that you type the name of prophet Muhammad
>>>>>>correctly. Youâ?Tve misspelled it twice and I dislike to assume that
>>>>>>of being somewhat deliberate. So, based on what Jesus said and did,
>>>>>>in the Bible you wholly hold up to, he simply cannot be God.
>>>>>>Thatâ?Ts why, Christians constantly demand to methodologically
>>>>>>palter as it comes to this critical concern. How could we explain
>>>>>>then my dear, Jesus implores to God, on multiple occasions
>>>>>>throughout the parables. Well, here are some quotes of that.
>>>>>>Hebrews 5:7, â?oIn the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers
>>>>>>and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save
>>>>>>Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety.â?  Three
>>>>>>questions here, first, if he is truly divine, why was he praying
>>>>>>then? Second, How could he be described as pious if he is divine?
>>>>>>Third, if he is divine indeed, why was
>>>>>>he yelling for redemption?    Well, here is
>>>>>>another quote: â?oMatthew 14:23, â?oAfter He had sent the crowds
>>>>>>away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray; and when it was
>>>>>>evening, He was there alone.â?  Well, my question here is, does God
>>>>>>need to unfeignedly implore in seclusion? Just call it a day folks,
>>>>>>itâ?Ts either black or white. Jesus cannot be human and divine at
>>>>>>the same time. That just cannot be discerned. You will tell me then,
>>>>>>well, God can do whatever he wants eh? Well, can he die? Can God die?
>>>>>>According to you, yes. But, if he is fully capable of doing
>>>>>>anything, why couldnâ?Tt he just forgive us? In Islam, when Adam and
>>>>>>Eve sinned, God taught them how to repent and they have been
>>>>>>forgiven, simple, easy and straightforward. God is all wise and he
>>>>>>doesnâ?Tt do things that are quite illogical and meaningless. Can
>>>>>>God oppress someone? According to your eccentric narrative of the
>>>>>>tale, he actuallly has done. When he sacrificed the innocent on the
>>>>>>behalf of the guilty. He thence ordains us of maintaining justice.
>>>>>>How is that possibly conciliated? As you guys can see, the matter
>>>>>>here exacerbates. I genuinely do not destine to provoke or offend
>>>>>>anyone here. I just urge people to ponder in the light of what the
>>>>>>scripture has actually taught. Lastly, kindly, if Iâ?Tll be
>>>>>>unsubscribed for whatever motive, just keep me noticed in advanced,
>>>>>>thank you. On 12/15/19, David Moore via Faith-Talk
>>>>>><faith-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote: > What about Jesus saying in John 14
>>>>>>where Jesus says, > â?oI am the way, the truth, and the life. No man
>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>to the Father but by > me!
>>>>>>> That sure sounds like Jesus is God himself to me! > What does that
>>>>>>mean to you? > How this in Acts chapter 4; > Salvation is found in
>>>>>>nobody else, for there is no other name under Heaven, > given to man
>>>>>>by which one must be saved! > What does that mean to you? > Next,
>>>>>>did Muhamad rise from the dead for you to be your advocate in heaven
>>>>>>> between you and the Father? > Do you believe you need to be
>>>>>>perfect to enter Heaven! > Scripture says that none of us our
>>>>>>perfect. > That is why we need a savior to forgive all of our sins!
>>>>>>> We need every sin forgiven, scripture says, to enter heaven! >
>>>>>>Islam just does not jive with these scriptures, show me how it does!
>>>>>>> David Moore > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > >
>>>>>>From: Mustafa Almahdy via Faith-Talk > Sent:
>>>>>>Saturday, December 14, 2019 7:24 AM > To:
>>>>>>debbiedrylie at gmail.com; moore at donaldmoore.org; >
>>>>>>dlgoza at jeffersonbaptist.org; erickelly at bellsouth.net;
>>>>>>a.bentson at comcast.net; > vance.jenkins at bsumc.com;
>>>>>>beverly.clapp at bsumc.com; joyce.ford at bsumc.com; >
>>>>>>robpowl306 at gmail.com; chris.malaska at bsumc.com;
>>>>>>stacy.phillips at bsumc.com; > debbie.friddle at bsumc.com;
>>>>>>faithfreedom2 at gmail.com; faith-talk at nfbnet.org; >
>>>>>>kbaggett at brainerdbaptist.org; adooley at ebcjackson.org; >
>>>>>>amanda.poff at nashvillefirst.org;
>>>>>>tom.crow at nashvillefirst.org; >
>>>>>>kelly.ablaza at longhollow.com;
>>>>>>mike.anthony at longhollow.com; >
>>>>>>onecrowsnest at gmail.com; josh.hrbc at gmail.com; hrbcmusic at gmail.com; >
>>>>>>wandawiles at charter.net; lee3066 at bellsouth.net > Cc: Mustafa Almahdy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Subject: [Faith-Talk] South Carolina avenue, Christ in Truth > > On
>>>>>>each and every Sunday, Christians around the world gather at >
>>>>>>Churches to glorify Christ. They consider him deified.
>>>>>>Nonetheless, he > never expressed that about himself explicitly. It
>>>>>>is immensely > perilous to lay Christians to dig into the Bible
>>>>>>themselves because > it's most unlikely that they'll find Jesus
>>>>>>enjoining people to worship > him. There are two main set of
>>>>>>statements regarding Jesus's > phraseology in the scripture.
>>>>>>Explicit and implicit statements.
>>>>>>What > is an explicit statement? It is what has been stated plainly,
>>>>>>readily > observable, leaving nothing to implication. Such as Jesus
>>>>>>saying in > John 3:17:; "Now this is eternal life, that they know
>>>>>>you, the only > true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." So
>>>>>>here, Jesus > clearly acknowledges divinity and monotheism to the
>>>>>>One and true God > and declares himself being sent by Him to convey
>>>>>>His message to > people. Then, we have implicit statements, whereas
>>>>>>some of them are > allegedly attributed to Jesus or possibly
>>>>>>misconstrued by some > apologists for essentially systematic theology
>>>>>>motives.
>>>>>>Such as Jesus > saying in John 10:30; "I and the Father are one".
>>>>>>Christian apologists > assert he has meant they are one in entity
>>>>>>while the text > presumptively entails they are one in identity.
>>>>>>Another instance, > where Jesus explicitly distinguishes between
>>>>>>himself and God. Jesus > says in John 8:40; "As it is, you are
>>>>>>looking for a way to kill me, a > man who has told you the truth
>>>>>>that I heard from God." According to > the Bible you wholly hold up
>>>>>>to, this was Jesus speaking to the Jews. > This particular passage
>>>>>>has three crucial messages to catch. First > off, Jesus declared
>>>>>>that Jews attempted to kill him. Thence, I > actually don't fathom
>>>>>>the awkward relationship today between those who > allegedly are the
>>>>>>followers of Jesus and those who, according to > scripture, were
>>>>>>sternly hostile to him. Second, Jesus unambiguously > stated that he
>>>>>>is a man who heard the word of God and destined to pass > it through
>>>>>>to people. He didn't say I am God in man incarnate or any > of that.
>>>>>>So, the personification of the divine in the character of > Jesus is
>>>>>>a later developed doctrine called the Hypostatic union. It is >
>>>>>>interesting to note, that historically, this particular doctrine has
>>>>>>> only been prefaced at the Council of Chalcedon in the year (451).
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>Consequently, it is demonstratively fallacious to embrace such tenet
>>>>>>> as it has been decisively probed to be absolutely mendacious. >
>>>>>>Moreover, according to your own version of the Bible, in English,
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>> description of Jesus's mission precisely befits the definition of
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>prophethood in Islam. Third, Jesus says he heard the truth from God.
>>>>>>> So, what is it? It is the message that he plainly stated in John
>>>>>>3:17 > as quoted above.
>>>>>>Furthermore, Jesus spoke the truth as he delivered > the message to
>>>>>>a tremendous croud as he uttered a magnanimous speech > known
>>>>>>biblically as sermon on the mount. In this major discourse, he >
>>>>>>taught the public what is biblically known as the Lord's prayer. If
>>>>>>> you Read this, while parallelly citing the opening of the Koran >
>>>>>>translated into English, you will discover a gravely unexpected >
>>>>>>similarity. I won't be taken aback, because it is yet the same
>>>>>>message > of Monotheism. Jesus implored to God.
>>>>>>If he was himself God, it would > have been quite irrational of
>>>>>>Jesus praying to himself. I urge > pastoral staff and their loyally
>>>>>>fellow congregants, to unfeignedly > seek the truth regarding
>>>>>>Jesus's solely spoken word in the Gospel. > Trust me, after I read
>>>>>>the Bible many times, my faith and conviction > of Islam being the
>>>>>>true pathway to the celestial realm has > strengthened leastwise two
>>>>>>fold. I do hope that you find this message > to you encouraging not
>>>>>>frustrating. It is not my nature to deride or > marginalise
>>>>>>someone's belief. Please, read the whole gospel and > earnestly seek
>>>>>>to find what Jesus says in it. I do not recognise the > words spoken
>>>>>>by Paul or others about Jesus. I only care about what was > directly
>>>>>> spoken
>>>>>>by Jesus.
>>>>>>The essence of this message is quite plain. > Find the truth and
>>>>>>stick to it. I wholeheartedly say to you, If I knew > that
>>>>>>Christianity is indeed the truth and only path to salvation, I >
>>>>>>would have unhesitatingly embraced it. This is not a joke nor it
>>>>>>bears > to be. > > _______________________________________________ >
>>>>>>  Faith-Talk mailing list > Faith-Talk at nfbnet.org >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
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