[Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.

Sherri flmom2006 at gmail.com
Mon Nov 30 13:44:10 UTC 2009 

Bravo David! I am sick and tired of formerly sighted or sighted people 
thinking they know how it really is.

I could say more, but your sentiments are exactly mine. Thank you.
Sherri
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.


> First of all Thanks for your opinion Charles.  and thanks for your service 
> to the blind community over your 17 year tenure.
>
> OK, a few opinions you have that you have expressed that I have to 
> respectfully disagree with.
>
> First of all I have heard while working as a "insider" in the past is that 
> I have heard many times, "I have 15 years experience, 12 yrs, 17 yrs..."
>
> All that means to most of the blind -low vision consumers is that most if 
> not all of the employees should have been fired years ago.  and while I 
> have worked as most of the job titles: VRT, ILS, Child and Family and sat 
> on many boards myselfFloridas Division of the Blind needs to clean house. 
> You say you have worked in the field of BVI for 17 years we'll just a 
> little hint, we bvi people don't get our sight back after five and on 
> weekends.  So I am asking who has more experience?  I have 19 years of 
> blind experience, 24 hours a day includeing holidays, weekends.
>
> I'm glad that you made the effort to go thru immersion for 3 weeks under 
> blindfold.  Employees of the prior Texas Commission for the Blind go thru 
> immersion for thirty days as new employees.  and I am also encouraged that 
> you encouraged your new sighted employees to make a effort to work on 
> learning or at the very least trying to understand the everyday struggles 
> of living b-vi.  That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
>
> I've like I said in previous post's observe and communicate with consumers 
> of the blind community and DBS before I make my comments.  and I'll say it 
> again  "DBS needs to change it's philosophy to better serve the BVI in 
> Florida."
>
> There are ways to do this and number 1 is to start employing B-VI person's 
> into DBS, unless the philosophy from DBS is that sighted people can do it 
> better?  and if that is the opinion of DBS then the whole slate of 
> employees serving the B-VI should be cleaned or then what is the use of 
> even giving you all pay checks at the expense of our tax dollars.
>
> On the topic of scholarships: are you kidding me?  Those student's worked 
> their rear ends off to earn them and I know what it takes as during my 
> educational learning from the University of Washington I earned a few 
> myself.    They are a mark of hard work and excellence giving to them for 
> all their hard work.   If they want to spend it on more equipment, food to 
> have enough energy to get to school the next day, clothes...  then so be 
> it. We as tax payers do not ask state employees to return the money it 
> cost's to feed a lunch to a agency during a training class, pay back the 
> many Holidays, accumidated sick leave, vacation, and all the other perks.
>
> The problem with most state employee's is after a short time after tenure 
> they forget where the money is coming from  (tax payers)  and forget who 
> they are working for.  The more money they don't spend and yes I know 
> about the Federal payback ratio but they start thinking about how nice 
> their Christmas party can be and all along pat each other on the back 
> saying, "isn't it nice we are helping those blind-low vision people"
>
> Thank You again for your long thought out opinions and it sounds like a 
> couple blanket statements other state rehabilitation offices send out that 
> comes directly from the top.  Hmm
>
> Enough already,
>
> David Wermuth
> Brooksville, FL
> dwermuth1 at earthlink.net
>
> P.S  Everyone have a nice day, I know I will.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:59 PM
> Subject: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>
>
>>
>> From: "Charles Randall" <randybns at earthlink.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:06 PM
>>
>>
>> I have worked at the O&A Center for 17 years. I can tell you that we did 
>> not
>> serve that many clients during the switch to NFB concepts. We had clients
>> who did not wish to use the sleep shades. Because of the slow down due to
>> having a set period of time, six to nine months in the general program,
>> clients had ato wait a long period for service. Just because one's
>> philosophy was being implemented doesn't mean service was better. The use 
>> of
>> sleep shades can be a very useful tool and should be both an option and a
>> suggestion to certain clients. However, it is not always necessary. 
>> Refusing
>> to offer such a tool is as unfortunate as forcing it on clients. As an
>> employee at the Center, I can tell you that we tried to be sure that the
>> customer received quality training and recommended additional instruction
>> when needed. In regards to being a revolving door, it is my opinion that 
>> if
>> a client came back to the Center not for new training, it was 
>> unfortunately
>> because a councelor in the field didn't know what to do with the client 
>> and
>> in some cases, wasn't assisting with job development. I appreciate 
>> learning
>> about different methods for teaching blindness skills and in 2004, I 
>> spent
>> three weeks at the Louisianna Center for the Blind in what they call an
>> immersion. What I learned best was that what they do is what we do at the
>> Daytona Center. Good people , concerned about and respectful of the
>> customers, teaching skills for travel, daily living and technology. One 
>> of
>> the instructors I enjoyed getting to know, was very strong in his NFB
>> philosophy, he felt it was the best way to work, but he was an 
>> open-minded
>> person who was willing to dialog and show respect to people with other
>> ideas.
>>
>> Regarding scholarships, I worked with a woman who had a number of
>> scholarships. DBS didn't as a result pay for her school but they did 
>> provide
>> her with equipment she needed to accomplish her goals. Remember, that the
>> pot is not unending and those scholarships should be used first allowing
>> funds to be used for those clients not so fortunate. In the case 
>> mentioned
>> where the client was asked to pay the money to the agency. I don't know 
>> for
>> sure what happened but I can speculate. Unfortunately, some offices 
>> aren't
>> run as well as they should be. They should not have paid the money to DBS
>> but rather used it for further education knowing that DBS would not have 
>> a
>> requirement to give additional funds until the scholarship was used.
>>
>> During Craig's administration, he made some very useful contributions.
>> Providing the opportunity for clients and training facilities to access 
>> more
>> technology was one I felt was long overdue. However, in a speech he made,
>> later published in the Braille Monitor, he made it appear that blind 
>> rehab
>> in Florida was totally underserved until his changes and the things he 
>> said
>> about the Daytona Center were, shall we say, inaccurate.
>>
>> It continues to be the responsibility of the consumer groups and the
>> customers to make their voices heard and have an influence on the 
>> Division
>> of Blind Services. And all due respect to one of my colleagues, and no
>> besmirching  of his integrity, in my opinion, no employee of the agency
>> should serve on the Rehab Council. It is not essential that all employees 
>> of
>> DBS be blind to ably provide good service, as we gain new employees who 
>> have
>> no background in the blindness field, they need to be encouraged to 
>> educate
>> themselves in order to understand their customers and the community 
>> around
>> themselves in order to provide quality services, not just manage 
>> paperwork.
>> Such education should involve not just course work but taking part in
>> activities alongside their customers and the consumer groups.
>>
>> Yes it is understood that I am an insider; I am also an officer in my 
>> local
>> chapter of the FCB. What is more important to me is my responsibility to
>> express what I feel is a more accurate picture of how some matters have 
>> been
>> dealt with between clients and the Division. I am not a spokesman for the
>> agency, only one man with an opinion. I appreciate the chance these 
>> channels
>> offer to interact with differing ideas. May I continue to learn from 
>> those I
>> don't always agree with. As iron sharpens iron,
>> so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27-17 NIV.
>>
>> Charles "Randy" Randall
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:32 PM
>> Subject: Fw: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>
>>
>>>I appreciate your thoughtful observations David and I still say that as 
>>>an
>>>organization, one of the things we can do is get NAC out of Florida. I do
>>>not understand the need of Florida agencies to be accredited by NAC. I 
>>>then
>>
>>>think that if we know of individual cases of people whose cases are not
>>>being handled well, we work on them on a chapter-by-chapter basis and
>>>involve others in the state affiliate if need be. I hate to see Florids'd
>>>rehab system slip back into the dark ages. Again, just my thoughts!
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Sherri,
>>>>
>>>> I have the personality and knowledge to sometimes kick back and observe
>>>> before putting myself in unknowledgeable situations. The reason I ask
>>>> these questions is to learn and figure out ways to positively asisst in
>>>> the areas that might be takeing a wrong way. We all know that sometimes
>>>> people blind or not have issues with advocateing for themselves and Yes
>>>> it is frustrateing at times but that is the way it is, and sometimes we
>>>> end up with egg on our face but...   I have sat and listened to
>>>> consumer's of DBS and heard some story's of how VRC's don't have time 
>>>> to
>>>> fill out the ppw for O and M and they just say OK and fade away sitting
>>>> in their homes because...
>>>>
>>>> It disturbs me and yes I am done observeing, so I ask all of you what 
>>>> is
>>>> next?  We all know the rehabilitation system here in Florida isn't
>>>> working, so????
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "Florida Association 
>>>> of
>>
>>>> Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:31 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> David and list, I agree with most of what Marion says and was actually
>>>>> going to answer in a similar way, but let me add that years ago, when
>>>>> serving as president of the National Federation of the Blind Greater
>>>>> Orlando Chapter and vice-president of the NFBF, I did advocate with
>>>>> local scholarship winners in Orlando when DBS insisted that because 
>>>>> DBS
>>>>> helps them procure equipment and pay for school, the scholarship 
>>>>> winner
>>>>> should return the scholarship from NFB-GOC to DBS. I was furious and
>>>>> went all the way to the top on that one. One person did give her
>>>>> winnings to DBS, but it was after much advice from me not to do so. 
>>>>> This
>>
>>>>> was in the pre Craig Kiser era.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do believe that DBS was making many progressive strides when Craig
>>>>> Kiser was director. I am acquainted with their present director and am
>>>>> frankly surprised at the turn the O&A center in Daytona has taken. I
>>>>> believe that advocacy from NFBF for those seeking help from DBS is 
>>>>> done
>>>>> more on an individual case-by-case basis rather than having some sort 
>>>>> of
>>
>>>>> state-wide policy.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have, however, participated in phone conferences with FAASB so our
>>>>> input is noted, though not necessarily acted upon.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also think we need to take into careful consideration our advocacy
>>>>> efforts. How much can we really advocate for the blind when several
>>>>> people are employed by DBS. This also spills over into transportation 
>>>>> as
>>
>>>>> there are those who also work for transportation companies who serve 
>>>>> the
>>
>>>>> disabled in Florida.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would actually like to see NFB work to drive NAC out of Florida, as
>>>>> accreditation by this organization holds no validity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why should you joiner NFB? Primarily because if you want to change
>>>>> something about an organization--if you want to move it forward-- you
>>>>> can only do so from the inside out. Putting forth negativity from the
>>>>> outside-in only hurts that organization and minimizes your own view.
>>>>> Having been both more and less involved with NFB over the years, I 
>>>>> have
>>>>> found that my views are noted far more if I am working in the
>>>>> organization to change what it means to be blind, rather than just 
>>>>> being
>>
>>>>> an outside observer. Whether I agree or disagree with policies, I find
>>>>> my choice is to do what I can to help the blind throughout Florida and
>>>>> this country and I can do that more effectively being part of NFB than
>>>>> by being out there on my own.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my thoughts and I thank you for asking these questions.
>>>>> Sherri
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "FLAGDU List"
>>>>> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:04 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>    The questions you ask are very valid ones! There was a time when 
>>>>>> the
>>
>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>> had a greater influence with the Division of Blind Services. During
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>> Kiser's administration, DBS was moving in a more positive direction.
>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>> is a very progressive thinker, understanding, living, and 
>>>>>> implementing
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB's philosophy, in spite of a great deal of opposition from those 
>>>>>> who
>>
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> content with the status quo. The Orientation & Adjustment center for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> blind in Daytona Beach began implementing NFB-style training, 
>>>>>> including
>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> use of sleep shades, in an effort to close the revolving door of
>>>>>> rehabilitation that once and now, again, exists. His goal was to
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> excellent training once, not bits and pieces as consumers lose more 
>>>>>> and
>>
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> eyesight, returning to the O&A Center to improve their lacking skills
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> should have been taught from the beginning. Unfortunately, Craig's
>>>>>> health
>>>>>> necessitated his retirement as the Director.
>>>>>>    We now have a Director who cannot even use the word "blind", as
>>>>>> evidenced by her presentation at our last NFBF convention. Though her
>>>>>> words
>>>>>> seemed to indicate that she is turning to the NFB for direction and
>>>>>> support,
>>>>>> I believe these words are only political rhetoric. The status quo has
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> returned to the O&A Center, taking two giant steps backward,  and the
>>>>>> Florida Association of Agencies Serving the Blind (FAASB) has more
>>>>>> influence and control over our lives as it
>>>>>> pertains to DBS than do we, the blind consumer! Florida has the
>>>>>> unfortunate distinction of having more NAC accreditted institutions
>>>>>> than any other state
>>>>>> and FAASB proports itself - and is accepted - to be the authoritative
>>>>>> voice
>>>>>> on issues of blindness. This is no surprise, as the Director of the
>>>>>> Division of Blind Services is a former Director of a NAC accreditted
>>>>>> institution - Lighthouse of Central Florida!
>>>>>>    As for the NFBF's involvement in consumer advocacy, I am of the
>>>>>> opinion that this is one of our major roles! I also feel that too 
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> are too close
>>>>>> to agency people to be effective consumer advocates. When crossing 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> lines from colleagues to friends, we diminish our capacity to be
>>>>>> effective consumer advocates and succumb to the pressures of those
>>>>>> doing the
>>>>>> pressuring! Our purpose is not to
>>>>>> be popular with the agencies, but to advance consumer rights of the
>>>>>> individual with the goal of helping consumers reach for and achieve
>>>>>> their highest potential!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:00 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First a little background on me.  I've worked for the state of Texas
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Washington in the Rehabilitation for the blind and moved to Florida
>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>> May.  I am not asking these question's to cause waves or insult in
>>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>>> as I don't know the answers or how much the NFB has influence with 
>>>>>>> the
>>
>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>> here and I am just trying to understand.  I have noticed that
>>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>>> many people on this list just read the post's and for some reason
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> participate in the conversation's and I totally understand but here
>>>>>>> are a
>>>>>>> couple question's and comments:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.  Does the NFB of Florida meet with the DBS for (Division of Blind
>>>>>>> Services) in making decisions for the low vision-blind for 
>>>>>>> employment
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> for their future goals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words do you as leaders  of the blind community stand up 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> rights for equal opportunity.  I've sat at many meeting's 
>>>>>>> negotiateing
>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> (throwing my fist down a few times on occasion" for the right's of 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> rehab act and the right of "choice"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2.  Does the NFB of Florida demand that all VRC's (Vocational
>>>>>>> Rehabilitation Counselers have the professionalism to asisst their
>>>>>>> consumers in obtaining their goals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I sat there at the leadership convention and heard at least three
>>>>>>> times to
>>>>>>> paraphase" when we getting a commission for the blind" and heard no
>>>>>>> comment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I only ask not to be insultive or arogant in any way I promise 
>>>>>>> you
>>
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> for those whom are wondering where to turn when DBS trys and as you
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> most of the time intimidates them can they turn to the NFB of 
>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been to a lot of NFB and ACB meetings through out the USA and I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> concerned that the majority of them have just been a lot of bull and
>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>> frankly butt-kissing their members to have numbers in their 
>>>>>>> chapters.
>>>>>>> What makes you different and why should I join the NFB of Florida?
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> remember many people are reading this for leadership.
>>>>>>> Dave Wermuth
>>>>>>> A to Z Adaptive Aids
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>>>>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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>>>>>>> Nfbf-l:
>>>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40veriz
>> on.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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