[Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
Sherri
flmom2006 at gmail.com
Mon Nov 30 13:46:08 UTC 2009
Marion, I noticed that the writer and the sender were not the same. I hope
the message gets to the writer. It's interesting how some blind people
regard the opinions of professionals higher than they do the opinions of
other blind people when it is after all blind people who have to accept the
services the professionals tell us.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
> David,
> Did you notice that the message writer and the message sender were not
> one and the same? I hope your message gets to the writer! At least it is
> getting to some of those who can help make a difference, perhaps altering
> their perceptions. I, too, saw this message as bureaucratic rhetoric! It
> takes considerable energy and motivation to change perceptions.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 5:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>
>
>> First of all Thanks for your opinion Charles. and thanks for your
>> service to the blind community over your 17 year tenure.
>>
>> OK, a few opinions you have that you have expressed that I have to
>> respectfully disagree with.
>>
>> First of all I have heard while working as a "insider" in the past is
>> that I have heard many times, "I have 15 years experience, 12 yrs, 17
>> yrs..."
>>
>> All that means to most of the blind -low vision consumers is that most if
>> not all of the employees should have been fired years ago. and while I
>> have worked as most of the job titles: VRT, ILS, Child and Family and sat
>> on many boards myselfFloridas Division of the Blind needs to clean house.
>> You say you have worked in the field of BVI for 17 years we'll just a
>> little hint, we bvi people don't get our sight back after five and on
>> weekends. So I am asking who has more experience? I have 19 years of
>> blind experience, 24 hours a day includeing holidays, weekends.
>>
>> I'm glad that you made the effort to go thru immersion for 3 weeks under
>> blindfold. Employees of the prior Texas Commission for the Blind go thru
>> immersion for thirty days as new employees. and I am also encouraged
>> that you encouraged your new sighted employees to make a effort to work
>> on learning or at the very least trying to understand the everyday
>> struggles of living b-vi. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
>>
>> I've like I said in previous post's observe and communicate with
>> consumers of the blind community and DBS before I make my comments. and
>> I'll say it again "DBS needs to change it's philosophy to better serve
>> the BVI in Florida."
>>
>> There are ways to do this and number 1 is to start employing B-VI
>> person's into DBS, unless the philosophy from DBS is that sighted people
>> can do it better? and if that is the opinion of DBS then the whole slate
>> of employees serving the B-VI should be cleaned or then what is the use
>> of even giving you all pay checks at the expense of our tax dollars.
>>
>> On the topic of scholarships: are you kidding me? Those student's worked
>> their rear ends off to earn them and I know what it takes as during my
>> educational learning from the University of Washington I earned a few
>> myself. They are a mark of hard work and excellence giving to them for
>> all their hard work. If they want to spend it on more equipment, food
>> to have enough energy to get to school the next day, clothes... then so
>> be it. We as tax payers do not ask state employees to return the money it
>> cost's to feed a lunch to a agency during a training class, pay back the
>> many Holidays, accumidated sick leave, vacation, and all the other perks.
>>
>> The problem with most state employee's is after a short time after tenure
>> they forget where the money is coming from (tax payers) and forget who
>> they are working for. The more money they don't spend and yes I know
>> about the Federal payback ratio but they start thinking about how nice
>> their Christmas party can be and all along pat each other on the back
>> saying, "isn't it nice we are helping those blind-low vision people"
>>
>> Thank You again for your long thought out opinions and it sounds like a
>> couple blanket statements other state rehabilitation offices send out
>> that comes directly from the top. Hmm
>>
>> Enough already,
>>
>> David Wermuth
>> Brooksville, FL
>> dwermuth1 at earthlink.net
>>
>> P.S Everyone have a nice day, I know I will.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Patricia A. Lipovsky" <plipovsky at cfl.rr.com>
>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:59 PM
>> Subject: [Flagdu] Fw: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: "Charles Randall" <randybns at earthlink.net>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:06 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> I have worked at the O&A Center for 17 years. I can tell you that we did
>>> not
>>> serve that many clients during the switch to NFB concepts. We had
>>> clients
>>> who did not wish to use the sleep shades. Because of the slow down due
>>> to
>>> having a set period of time, six to nine months in the general program,
>>> clients had ato wait a long period for service. Just because one's
>>> philosophy was being implemented doesn't mean service was better. The
>>> use of
>>> sleep shades can be a very useful tool and should be both an option and
>>> a
>>> suggestion to certain clients. However, it is not always necessary.
>>> Refusing
>>> to offer such a tool is as unfortunate as forcing it on clients. As an
>>> employee at the Center, I can tell you that we tried to be sure that the
>>> customer received quality training and recommended additional
>>> instruction
>>> when needed. In regards to being a revolving door, it is my opinion that
>>> if
>>> a client came back to the Center not for new training, it was
>>> unfortunately
>>> because a councelor in the field didn't know what to do with the client
>>> and
>>> in some cases, wasn't assisting with job development. I appreciate
>>> learning
>>> about different methods for teaching blindness skills and in 2004, I
>>> spent
>>> three weeks at the Louisianna Center for the Blind in what they call an
>>> immersion. What I learned best was that what they do is what we do at
>>> the
>>> Daytona Center. Good people , concerned about and respectful of the
>>> customers, teaching skills for travel, daily living and technology. One
>>> of
>>> the instructors I enjoyed getting to know, was very strong in his NFB
>>> philosophy, he felt it was the best way to work, but he was an
>>> open-minded
>>> person who was willing to dialog and show respect to people with other
>>> ideas.
>>>
>>> Regarding scholarships, I worked with a woman who had a number of
>>> scholarships. DBS didn't as a result pay for her school but they did
>>> provide
>>> her with equipment she needed to accomplish her goals. Remember, that
>>> the
>>> pot is not unending and those scholarships should be used first allowing
>>> funds to be used for those clients not so fortunate. In the case
>>> mentioned
>>> where the client was asked to pay the money to the agency. I don't know
>>> for
>>> sure what happened but I can speculate. Unfortunately, some offices
>>> aren't
>>> run as well as they should be. They should not have paid the money to
>>> DBS
>>> but rather used it for further education knowing that DBS would not have
>>> a
>>> requirement to give additional funds until the scholarship was used.
>>>
>>> During Craig's administration, he made some very useful contributions.
>>> Providing the opportunity for clients and training facilities to access
>>> more
>>> technology was one I felt was long overdue. However, in a speech he
>>> made,
>>> later published in the Braille Monitor, he made it appear that blind
>>> rehab
>>> in Florida was totally underserved until his changes and the things he
>>> said
>>> about the Daytona Center were, shall we say, inaccurate.
>>>
>>> It continues to be the responsibility of the consumer groups and the
>>> customers to make their voices heard and have an influence on the
>>> Division
>>> of Blind Services. And all due respect to one of my colleagues, and no
>>> besmirching of his integrity, in my opinion, no employee of the agency
>>> should serve on the Rehab Council. It is not essential that all
>>> employees of
>>> DBS be blind to ably provide good service, as we gain new employees who
>>> have
>>> no background in the blindness field, they need to be encouraged to
>>> educate
>>> themselves in order to understand their customers and the community
>>> around
>>> themselves in order to provide quality services, not just manage
>>> paperwork.
>>> Such education should involve not just course work but taking part in
>>> activities alongside their customers and the consumer groups.
>>>
>>> Yes it is understood that I am an insider; I am also an officer in my
>>> local
>>> chapter of the FCB. What is more important to me is my responsibility to
>>> express what I feel is a more accurate picture of how some matters have
>>> been
>>> dealt with between clients and the Division. I am not a spokesman for
>>> the
>>> agency, only one man with an opinion. I appreciate the chance these
>>> channels
>>> offer to interact with differing ideas. May I continue to learn from
>>> those I
>>> don't always agree with. As iron sharpens iron,
>>> so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27-17 NIV.
>>>
>>> Charles "Randy" Randall
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:32 PM
>>> Subject: Fw: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I appreciate your thoughtful observations David and I still say that as
>>>>an
>>>>organization, one of the things we can do is get NAC out of Florida. I
>>>>do
>>>>not understand the need of Florida agencies to be accredited by NAC. I
>>>>then
>>>
>>>>think that if we know of individual cases of people whose cases are not
>>>>being handled well, we work on them on a chapter-by-chapter basis and
>>>>involve others in the state affiliate if need be. I hate to see
>>>>Florids'd
>>>>rehab system slip back into the dark ages. Again, just my thoughts!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:41 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Sherri,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the personality and knowledge to sometimes kick back and
>>>>> observe
>>>>> before putting myself in unknowledgeable situations. The reason I ask
>>>>> these questions is to learn and figure out ways to positively asisst
>>>>> in
>>>>> the areas that might be takeing a wrong way. We all know that
>>>>> sometimes
>>>>> people blind or not have issues with advocateing for themselves and
>>>>> Yes
>>>>> it is frustrateing at times but that is the way it is, and sometimes
>>>>> we
>>>>> end up with egg on our face but... I have sat and listened to
>>>>> consumer's of DBS and heard some story's of how VRC's don't have time
>>>>> to
>>>>> fill out the ppw for O and M and they just say OK and fade away
>>>>> sitting
>>>>> in their homes because...
>>>>>
>>>>> It disturbs me and yes I am done observeing, so I ask all of you what
>>>>> is
>>>>> next? We all know the rehabilitation system here in Florida isn't
>>>>> working, so????
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>; "Florida Association
>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>> Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:31 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> David and list, I agree with most of what Marion says and was
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>> going to answer in a similar way, but let me add that years ago, when
>>>>>> serving as president of the National Federation of the Blind Greater
>>>>>> Orlando Chapter and vice-president of the NFBF, I did advocate with
>>>>>> local scholarship winners in Orlando when DBS insisted that because
>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>> helps them procure equipment and pay for school, the scholarship
>>>>>> winner
>>>>>> should return the scholarship from NFB-GOC to DBS. I was furious and
>>>>>> went all the way to the top on that one. One person did give her
>>>>>> winnings to DBS, but it was after much advice from me not to do so.
>>>>>> This
>>>
>>>>>> was in the pre Craig Kiser era.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do believe that DBS was making many progressive strides when Craig
>>>>>> Kiser was director. I am acquainted with their present director and
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> frankly surprised at the turn the O&A center in Daytona has taken. I
>>>>>> believe that advocacy from NFBF for those seeking help from DBS is
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> more on an individual case-by-case basis rather than having some sort
>>>>>> of
>>>
>>>>>> state-wide policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have, however, participated in phone conferences with FAASB so our
>>>>>> input is noted, though not necessarily acted upon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think we need to take into careful consideration our advocacy
>>>>>> efforts. How much can we really advocate for the blind when several
>>>>>> people are employed by DBS. This also spills over into transportation
>>>>>> as
>>>
>>>>>> there are those who also work for transportation companies who serve
>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>> disabled in Florida.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would actually like to see NFB work to drive NAC out of Florida, as
>>>>>> accreditation by this organization holds no validity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why should you joiner NFB? Primarily because if you want to change
>>>>>> something about an organization--if you want to move it forward-- you
>>>>>> can only do so from the inside out. Putting forth negativity from the
>>>>>> outside-in only hurts that organization and minimizes your own view.
>>>>>> Having been both more and less involved with NFB over the years, I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> found that my views are noted far more if I am working in the
>>>>>> organization to change what it means to be blind, rather than just
>>>>>> being
>>>
>>>>>> an outside observer. Whether I agree or disagree with policies, I
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> my choice is to do what I can to help the blind throughout Florida
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> this country and I can do that more effectively being part of NFB
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> by being out there on my own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my thoughts and I thank you for asking these questions.
>>>>>> Sherri
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>; "FLAGDU List"
>>>>>> <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:04 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Flagdu] [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David,
>>>>>>> The questions you ask are very valid ones! There was a time when
>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>> had a greater influence with the Division of Blind Services. During
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> Kiser's administration, DBS was moving in a more positive direction.
>>>>>>> Craig
>>>>>>> is a very progressive thinker, understanding, living, and
>>>>>>> implementing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> NFB's philosophy, in spite of a great deal of opposition from those
>>>>>>> who
>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> content with the status quo. The Orientation & Adjustment center for
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> blind in Daytona Beach began implementing NFB-style training,
>>>>>>> including
>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> use of sleep shades, in an effort to close the revolving door of
>>>>>>> rehabilitation that once and now, again, exists. His goal was to
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>> excellent training once, not bits and pieces as consumers lose more
>>>>>>> and
>>>
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> eyesight, returning to the O&A Center to improve their lacking
>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> should have been taught from the beginning. Unfortunately, Craig's
>>>>>>> health
>>>>>>> necessitated his retirement as the Director.
>>>>>>> We now have a Director who cannot even use the word "blind", as
>>>>>>> evidenced by her presentation at our last NFBF convention. Though
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> words
>>>>>>> seemed to indicate that she is turning to the NFB for direction and
>>>>>>> support,
>>>>>>> I believe these words are only political rhetoric. The status quo
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> returned to the O&A Center, taking two giant steps backward, and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Florida Association of Agencies Serving the Blind (FAASB) has more
>>>>>>> influence and control over our lives as it
>>>>>>> pertains to DBS than do we, the blind consumer! Florida has the
>>>>>>> unfortunate distinction of having more NAC accreditted institutions
>>>>>>> than any other state
>>>>>>> and FAASB proports itself - and is accepted - to be the
>>>>>>> authoritative
>>>>>>> voice
>>>>>>> on issues of blindness. This is no surprise, as the Director of the
>>>>>>> Division of Blind Services is a former Director of a NAC accreditted
>>>>>>> institution - Lighthouse of Central Florida!
>>>>>>> As for the NFBF's involvement in consumer advocacy, I am of the
>>>>>>> opinion that this is one of our major roles! I also feel that too
>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> are too close
>>>>>>> to agency people to be effective consumer advocates. When crossing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> lines from colleagues to friends, we diminish our capacity to be
>>>>>>> effective consumer advocates and succumb to the pressures of those
>>>>>>> doing the
>>>>>>> pressuring! Our purpose is not to
>>>>>>> be popular with the agencies, but to advance consumer rights of the
>>>>>>> individual with the goal of helping consumers reach for and achieve
>>>>>>> their highest potential!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "davidw" <dwermuth1 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: "Florida Association of Guide Dog Users" <flagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: "NFB of Florida Listserv" <nfbf-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:00 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbf-l] May I ask a question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> First a little background on me. I've worked for the state of
>>>>>>>> Texas
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Washington in the Rehabilitation for the blind and moved to Florida
>>>>>>>> last
>>>>>>>> May. I am not asking these question's to cause waves or insult in
>>>>>>>> anyway
>>>>>>>> as I don't know the answers or how much the NFB has influence with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>
>>>>>>>> DBS
>>>>>>>> here and I am just trying to understand. I have noticed that
>>>>>>>> hopefully
>>>>>>>> many people on this list just read the post's and for some reason
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> participate in the conversation's and I totally understand but here
>>>>>>>> are a
>>>>>>>> couple question's and comments:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Does the NFB of Florida meet with the DBS for (Division of
>>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>>> Services) in making decisions for the low vision-blind for
>>>>>>>> employment
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> for their future goals?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In other words do you as leaders of the blind community stand up
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rights for equal opportunity. I've sat at many meeting's
>>>>>>>> negotiateing
>>>
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> (throwing my fist down a few times on occasion" for the right's of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> rehab act and the right of "choice"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. Does the NFB of Florida demand that all VRC's (Vocational
>>>>>>>> Rehabilitation Counselers have the professionalism to asisst their
>>>>>>>> consumers in obtaining their goals?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I sat there at the leadership convention and heard at least three
>>>>>>>> times to
>>>>>>>> paraphase" when we getting a commission for the blind" and heard no
>>>>>>>> comment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I only ask not to be insultive or arogant in any way I promise
>>>>>>>> you
>>>
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> for those whom are wondering where to turn when DBS trys and as you
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> most of the time intimidates them can they turn to the NFB of
>>>>>>>> Florida
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been to a lot of NFB and ACB meetings through out the USA and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> concerned that the majority of them have just been a lot of bull
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> quite
>>>>>>>> frankly butt-kissing their members to have numbers in their
>>>>>>>> chapters.
>>>>>>>> What makes you different and why should I join the NFB of Florida?
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> remember many people are reading this for leadership.
>>>>>>>> Dave Wermuth
>>>>>>>> A to Z Adaptive Aids
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> Nfbf-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbf-l_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40veriz
>>> on.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> t
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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