[Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

Sat Jan 7 20:09:03 UTC 2017

Untreated ear infection, that's all someone needs to try to remove a dog? My god then half the pets out there should be removed as well. Wait, I forgot most pet owners are sighted so who cares--lol.

I mean my pup had an ear infection that lasted months and months and months no matter  the vet or what I did, so someone could have misunderstood how I was doing things and alleged alls orts of things. 

My god, well good luck with that, Marion and more power to you my friend, I'm so glad that 		 is standing strong in favor of consumer rights for guide dog users.

-----Original Message-----
From: FLAGDU [mailto:flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU President via FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 3:01 PM
To: 'Florida Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: NAGDU President
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

	I am not at liberty to say much more than I am currently advocating for a guide dog consumer whose dog was removed due to an anonymous complaint of abuse and the assertion the dog had an untreated ear infection. I have spoken with law enforcement and the dog's veterinarian who have asserted there was no suspicion nor evidence of abuse and the ear infection was being treated. A guide dog training program should not have the "sole discretion" to remove a dog for any reason without objective, third-party evidence of abuse or neglect.

Fraternally yours,

Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National Federation of the Blind
(813) 626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG

The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds you back.

-----Original Message-----
From: FLAGDU [mailto:flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lee Pupo via FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 1:23 PM
To: Florida Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Lee Pupo
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

As the President said, all guide dog schools have the same basic agreement. One of the trainers from SEGD visits each and every team routinely and when any problem is reported. They work to correct any poor behavior on the dog AND the owners part. They don't want to take the dog back, but want to resolve any abuse issue. 
Does anyone have any first hand information about a dog being removed from the handler?

LEE  😎

On Jan 7, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Lee Pupo via FLAGDU <flagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Yes, I dread the day JP retires. 

LEE  😎

On Jan 7, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Peter via FLAGDU <flagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

I agree, I went to GDF, and I own JJ. Yes he will be retired in the coming months. I'll try to put this off for as long as possible. He has been a terrific guide for me.
If anybody told me his health, or that he is to old and they try to take him from me. Well they would have a fight on there hands. JJ has been with me for most of his life, and he will die with me.

-----Original Message----- From: Dan Weiner via FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 9:18 AM
To: 'Florida Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Dan Weiner
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

Thank you so much for sharing this, well guess what school I'm not going to apply to next time around. No, guys I'm not casting asspursions on SEGDB's training I have no reason to think iit's worse or better than anyone else, but that contract annoys and concerns me and fortunately we have a choice of programs.

Cordially,
Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: FLAGDU [mailto:flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU President via FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 6:33 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users; flagdu at nfbnet.org
Cc: NAGDU President
Subject: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

Dear All,

             FYI, I am sharing with you the ownership agreement of Southeastern Guide Dogs. This agreement was shared with me by a graduate of the program. I would like to call your attention to paragraph 3 of the agreement which states in part

"3.    RETIREMENT. It is understood and agreed to that the Dog

will be retired if, in the sole opinion of any SEGDI staff or representative, the Dog is not healthy enough to continue as a  guide dog.
It is also understood and agreed to that the Dog  MUST be retired on or before his/her eleventh (11 th) Birthday"

Personally, I have some serious concerns about this paragraph. My first and obvious concern is that it allows Southeastern to repossess a dog with the sole discretion of any staff member of Southeastern should that person determine the dog is not healthy to continue as a guide dog. It does not require any objective evidence nor that the person making such a decision be competent to do so.

             This paragraph also requires an owner to retire their dog on or before its 11th birthday. My second guide dog, incidentally from Southeastern Guide Dogs, worked until he was nearly 15 years old. Mike Sergeant used to refer to him as "Superdog"! My third guide dog, also from Southeastern, worked until she was 13 years old. It is my opinion that, if we own our dogs, no one has the right to require we retire the dog and the 11-year-old mark is arbitrary. Many of us have had guide dogs that have worked well past the 11 year mark.

             Also, please pay attention to paragraph 5 in which Southeastern has the right to repossess the dog for reasons of "suspected abuse or negligence". This is troubling because it does not require any evidence of abuse or neglect, simply a suspicion of abuse or neglect.

             Many other training programs have similar conditions which I believe are paternalistic and arbitrary. I encourage each of you to consider what you would do and how you would feel if someone levied an unfounded, anonymous complaint of abuse or neglect against you and, based upon this anonymous, unfounded complaint and, inspite of the assertions of your veterinarian and close family and friends, there was no evidence of abuse, your dog was repossessed. Lest you say this would not happen, let me tell you it has and is currently occurring!

Fraternally yours,

Marion Gwizdala, President

National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)

National Federation of the Blind

(813) 626-2789

President at NAGDU.ORG

The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds you back.

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