[Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

Peter blackbelt48 at earthlink.net
Sat Jan 7 20:40:26 UTC 2017 

What is next? today an ear infection, tomorrow a hot spot!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Dan Weiner via FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 3:09 PM
To: 'Florida Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Dan Weiner
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

Untreated ear infection, that's all someone needs to try to remove a dog? My 
god then half the pets out there should be removed as well. Wait, I forgot 
most pet owners are sighted so who cares--lol.

I mean my pup had an ear infection that lasted months and months and months 
no matter  the vet or what I did, so someone could have misunderstood how I 
was doing things and alleged alls orts of things.

My god, well good luck with that, Marion and more power to you my friend, 
I'm so glad that is standing strong in favor of consumer rights for guide 
dog users.

-----Original Message-----
From: FLAGDU [mailto:flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU President 
via FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 3:01 PM
To: 'Florida Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: NAGDU President
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

I am not at liberty to say much more than I am currently advocating for a 
guide dog consumer whose dog was removed due to an anonymous complaint of 
abuse and the assertion the dog had an untreated ear infection. I have 
spoken with law enforcement and the dog's veterinarian who have asserted 
there was no suspicion nor evidence of abuse and the ear infection was being 
treated. A guide dog training program should not have the "sole discretion" 
to remove a dog for any reason without objective, third-party evidence of 
abuse or neglect.

Fraternally yours,

Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National Federation of 
the Blind
(813) 626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG


The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the 
characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise 
expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people 
and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds 
you back.


-----Original Message-----
From: FLAGDU [mailto:flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lee Pupo via 
FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 1:23 PM
To: Florida Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Lee Pupo
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

As the President said, all guide dog schools have the same basic agreement. 
One of the trainers from SEGD visits each and every team routinely and when 
any problem is reported. They work to correct any poor behavior on the dog 
AND the owners part. They don't want to take the dog back, but want to 
resolve any abuse issue.
Does anyone have any first hand information about a dog being removed from 
the handler?

LEE  😎

On Jan 7, 2017, at 11:46 AM, Lee Pupo via FLAGDU <flagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Yes, I dread the day JP retires.

LEE  😎

On Jan 7, 2017, at 10:15 AM, Peter via FLAGDU <flagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

I agree, I went to GDF, and I own JJ. Yes he will be retired in the coming 
months. I'll try to put this off for as long as possible. He has been a 
terrific guide for me.
If anybody told me his health, or that he is to old and they try to take him 
from me. Well they would have a fight on there hands. JJ has been with me 
for most of his life, and he will die with me.

-----Original Message----- From: Dan Weiner via FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 9:18 AM
To: 'Florida Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Dan Weiner
Subject: Re: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

Thank you so much for sharing this, well guess what school I'm not going to 
apply to next time around. No, guys I'm not casting asspursions on SEGDB's 
training I have no reason to think iit's worse or better than anyone else, 
but that contract annoys and concerns me and fortunately we have a choice of 
programs.

Cordially,
Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: FLAGDU [mailto:flagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU President 
via FLAGDU
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2017 6:33 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users; 
flagdu at nfbnet.org
Cc: NAGDU President
Subject: [Flagdu] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement

Dear All,



             FYI, I am sharing with you the ownership agreement of 
Southeastern Guide Dogs. This agreement was shared with me by a graduate of 
the program. I would like to call your attention to paragraph 3 of the 
agreement which states in part



"3.    RETIREMENT. It is understood and agreed to that the Dog

will be retired if, in the sole opinion of any SEGDI staff or 
representative, the Dog is not healthy enough to continue as a  guide dog.
It is also understood and agreed to that the Dog  MUST be retired on or 
before his/her eleventh (11 th) Birthday"



Personally, I have some serious concerns about this paragraph. My first and 
obvious concern is that it allows Southeastern to repossess a dog with the 
sole discretion of any staff member of Southeastern should that person 
determine the dog is not healthy to continue as a guide dog. It does not 
require any objective evidence nor that the person making such a decision be 
competent to do so.



             This paragraph also requires an owner to retire their dog on or 
before its 11th birthday. My second guide dog, incidentally from 
Southeastern Guide Dogs, worked until he was nearly 15 years old. Mike 
Sergeant used to refer to him as "Superdog"! My third guide dog, also from 
Southeastern, worked until she was 13 years old. It is my opinion that, if 
we own our dogs, no one has the right to require we retire the dog and the 
11-year-old mark is arbitrary. Many of us have had guide dogs that have 
worked well past the 11 year mark.



             Also, please pay attention to paragraph 5 in which Southeastern 
has the right to repossess the dog for reasons of "suspected abuse or 
negligence". This is troubling because it does not require any evidence of 
abuse or neglect, simply a suspicion of abuse or neglect.



             Many other training programs have similar conditions which I 
believe are paternalistic and arbitrary. I encourage each of you to consider 
what you would do and how you would feel if someone levied an unfounded, 
anonymous complaint of abuse or neglect against you and, based upon this 
anonymous, unfounded complaint and, inspite of the assertions of your 
veterinarian and close family and friends, there was no evidence of abuse, 
your dog was repossessed. Lest you say this would not happen, let me tell 
you it has and is currently occurring!



Fraternally yours,







Marion Gwizdala, President

National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)

National Federation of the Blind

(813) 626-2789

President at NAGDU.ORG





The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the 
characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise 
expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people 
and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds 
you back.



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