[gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS PatentOffice Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating their claims against GW Micro

Don H lmddh50 at comcast.net
Thu Nov 1 18:32:54 UTC 2012 

Wouldn't it be nice to change the subject line on this series of messages?

On 11/1/2012 1:29 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
> The reason Microsoft Office does not work on the mac is because
> Microsoft refuses to make it accessible. Apple has provided APIs for
> programs to use to make their applications accessible. Actually, if
> applications use the standard mac tools provided, their application
> should be accessible automatically. On both the mac and windows, for
> some reason, developers choose to create their own controls and
> interfaces, though their is usually no reason to do this.
> Original message:
>> As I stated in another note, it is fair to say that Microsoft Office
>> products are not accessible on the MAC, but it probably is
>> not fair to say that they are not accessible because VoiceOver doesn't
>> support them.  VoiceOver probably can't support them as
>> they are written.  We have lots of software on the Windows platform
>> that screen readers simply can't support for one reason or
>> another.  An example is older versions of Open Office which did not
>> work with screen readers on Windows even with Java support.
>> That seems to be changing, but there are still rough edges to say the
>> least.
>
>> Best regards,
>
>> Steve Jacobson
>
>> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 14:02:11 +0100, Rafal Charlampowicz wrote:
>
>>> I was going to have Mac at my work, but it turned out that I needed
>>> to use
>>> MS Outlook and a few other MS applications. I learnt that Voice Over
>>> supports none of them.
>>> So deciding on Mac on should check if he or shee still would be able
>>> to do
>>> his or her job.
>
>>> --
>>> Rafal
>
>
>
>
>
>>> -----Oryginalna wiadomoÅ:Ä!-----
>>> From: Ray Foret Jr
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:41 PM
>>> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,GUI Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS
>>> PatentOffice
>>> Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating their
>>> claims against GW Micro
>
>>> www.blindcooltech.com
>>> and search for "Mac demo"
>
>>> Those recordings are a little out of date now; but, they do provide an
>>> excelent overview of the basics.  Heck, that's how I learned.  IN fact,
>>> those recordings are how I decided to go for the Mac over windows 7.
>
>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>>> Skype name:
>>> barefootedray
>
>>> On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:22 AM, "Hoffman, Allen" <Allen.Hoffman at HQ.DHS.GOV>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> I believe head to head NVDA and JAWS are nearing one another.
>>>> I keep thinking NVDA will pull ahead, but I don't believe it has
>>>> just yet.
>>>> My personal opinion of voiceOver on Mac is that it is darned
>>>> difficult to
>>>> learn, but may provide pretty good accessibility.  I found IPhone
>>>> hard to
>>>> learn when learning only on Ipad, but when I used IPhone it seemed
>>>> easier.
>>>> I can do most things now on IPhone, but can't translate this knowledge
>>>> well to the Mac environment.  If someone has a tutorial that isn't
>>>> excruciatingly slow that teaches voiceOver and Mac at the same time
>>>> and is
>>>> not feature by feature based, e.g. there are a lot of walk throughs
>>>> which
>>>> teach invidiaul features, but I think I need a ground up tutorial
>>>> better
>>>> than that built in to the VoiceOver itself, please post an URL.
>
>
>
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>>>> Arrigo
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:28 PM
>>>> To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US
>>>> PatentOffice Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and
>>>> eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>
>>>> As far as whether the expensive screen readers have better application
>>>> support, it depends on what apps you are using. For scanning, that's
>>>> easy,
>>>> docuscan plus has a version for the mac.
>>>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>
>
>>>>> Again, I would challenge your assertion that a Mac can do things
>>>>> better
>>>>> than a Windows computer.  For instance, there is no Mac text to speech
>>>>> app that is remotely comparable to Open Book or Kurzweil 1000.  And if
>>>>> Macs are so superior to Windows machines, why haven't they been
>>>>> embraced
>>>>> by business users and government agencies?  You still get what you pay
>>>>> for.  While the Mac with Voice Over and the free and low cost
>>>>> commercial
>>>>> screen readers can do many things well, they nevertheless lack the
>>>>> panaply of features and compatibility with third-party programs
>>>>> that the
>>>>> more expensive commercial screen readers offer.
>
>>>>> Gerald
>
>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Arrigo" <n0oxy at charter.net>
>>>>> To: <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US
>>>>> PatentOffice Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and
>>>>> eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>
>
>>>>>> Yes, the mac is my primary computing platform for home use. Some may
>>>>>> disagree with me here, and that's fine, but, I think the days of the
>>>>>> expensive screen reader are numbered anyway. We now have system
>>>>>> access
>>>>>> for windows at a much cheaper price, and NVDA is free and
>>>>>> continues to
>>>>>> get better and better. We also have voiceover on the mac which does
>>>>>> things as good as the windows screen readers and in some cases
>>>>>> better.
>>>>>> Microsoft has also included a much better version of narrator in
>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>> 8. The reasons for purchasing the expensive screen readers are simply
>>>>>> disappearing.
>>>>>> I think as time goes by, more and more computing will take place on
>>>>>> mobile devices such as smart phones and tablets. Many of these
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> accessibility out of the box. I'm not saying the desktop or laptop
>>>>>> computer will be gone next year, but I do think over the next few
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> we will start to see that trend take place.
>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>> I could not agree more Mike!  Spot on.  IN fact, it was things
>>>>>>> such as
>>>>>>> this along with your Mac recordings that caused me to switch to
>>>>>>> my Mac
>>>>>>> back in November of 2009.  Justice has truly been served.
>
>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>
>>>>>>> Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>
>>>>>>> Skype name:
>>>>>>> barefootedray
>
>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Mike Arrigo <n0oxy at charter.net> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>> That was definitely a long time coming. Freedom science fiction got
>>>>>>>> what was coming to them, that law suit never should have been
>>>>>>>> filed in
>>>>>>>> the first place. First they sued Serotek and then GW-micro. This is
>>>>>>>> one reason among others why I will never purchase or recommend
>>>>>>>> Freedom
>>>>>>>> Scientific products, especially when their are much better products
>>>>>>>> available. A part of me thinks that GW-Micro should counter sue to
>>>>>>>> recover the costs associated with this, but I guess in a way that
>>>>>>>> would make them no better. At least Justice was served. The
>>>>>>>> bible has
>>>>>>>> something very good to say about things like this. I'm paraphrasing
>>>>>>>> here, but, basically it says that those who try to ensnare and trap
>>>>>>>> others by digging a hole will fall in to it themselves. I'd say
>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>> what happened here.
>>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>>> The following message appeared on several of GW Micro's public
>>>>>>>>> lists yesterday.  Reference is made to a large MP3 file that can
>>>>>>>>> be downloaded to hear the arguments.  Some had trouble finding the
>>>>>>>>> file from the URL provided, so later this URL was provided to get
>>>>>>>>> more closely to the MP3 file:
>
>>>>>>>>> http://oralarguments.cafc.uscourts.gov/default.aspx?fl=2012-1145.m
>>>>>>>>> p3
>
>>>>>>>>> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>
>>>>>>>>> From: gw-news at gwmicro.com [mailto:gw-news at gwmicro.com]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 9:46 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: gw-news at gwmicro.com
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US Patent Office
>>>>>>>>> Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and eliminating
>>>>>>>>> their claims against GW Micro
>
>>>>>>>>> In July of 2008 on my first day back in the office after the Sight
>>>>>>>>> Village conference, someone entered our office and handed me a
>>>>>>>>> summons and notification of a lawsuit brought on by Freedom
>>>>>>>>> Scientific against GW Micro.  They received a patent for certain
>>>>>>>>> screen reader features and our response was that Window-Eyes had
>>>>>>>>> those same basic features several years prior to their patent.
>>>>>>>>> This was the beginning of a long waste of time and money, which
>>>>>>>>> finally came to a close last week.  GW Micro is vindicated - it's
>>>>>>>>> over - the court decided in our favor!
>
>>>>>>>>> I won't provide all the details but in general, the Patent Office
>>>>>>>>> reexamined their patent at our request and found it to be invalid
>>>>>>>>> in view of prior art.  Both the patent examiner and the Board of
>>>>>>>>> Appeals in the Patent Office came to the same conclusion
>>>>>>>>> - the patent is invalid.  Despite those results, they asked for a
>>>>>>>>> federal court to review the decision and again they came to the
>>>>>>>>> same conclusion as everyone else.  You may listen to this final
>>>>>>>>> argument by going to http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/oral-argument-
>>>>>>>>> recordings/search/audio.html search for Appeal 2012-1145, listen
>>>>>>>>> to the MP3 file and you will easily come to the same conclusion as
>>>>>>>>> everyone else.  Their original patent should not have been granted
>>>>>>>>> in the first place and without the patent, there are no grounds
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> their lawsuit against GW Micro.  If you decide to listen to that
>>>>>>>>> file, you should be aware that it is a large file, which will take
>>>>>>>>> some time to download.
>
>>>>>>>>> We want to thank you all for the many words of encouragement,
>>>>>>>>> support
>>>>>>>>> and prayers that we've received over these past 4 years.
>>>>>>>>> Not one person ever suggested that we should do anything other
>>>>>>>>> than fight and defend ourselves.  However, the sad fact is that
>>>>>>>>> actions like this hurt all of us.  This caused a waste of
>>>>>>>>> dollars and
>>>>>>>>> time for both our companies, which could have been spent improving
>>>>>>>>> existing products and developing new ones.
>
>>>>>>>>> GW Micro chooses to take the path of creating new products,
>>>>>>>>> features and innovations and our recent release of our Window-Eyes
>>>>>>>>> 8 public beta illustrates that perfectly.  If you haven't done so
>>>>>>>>> already, I hope you will give it a try.  Simply doing that will
>>>>>>>>> show
>>>>>>>>> your support of GW Micro.  We promise to continue to work hard and
>>>>>>>>> conduct business in an honest and proper fashion.  The
>>>>>>>>> reputation of
>>>>>>>>> GW Micro will never be litigation instead of innovation.
>
>>>>>>>>> ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
>
>
>
>
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>
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