[gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS PatentOffice Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating their claims against GW Micro

Thu Nov 1 18:36:53 UTC 2012

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

It's getting ridiculous.

Bud

!At 11:32 AM 11/1/2012, you wrote:
>Wouldn't it be nice to change the subject line on this series of messages?
>
>On 11/1/2012 1:29 PM, Mike Arrigo wrote:
>>The reason Microsoft Office does not work on the mac is because
>>Microsoft refuses to make it accessible. Apple has provided APIs for
>>programs to use to make their applications accessible. Actually, if
>>applications use the standard mac tools provided, their application
>>should be accessible automatically. On both the mac and windows, for
>>some reason, developers choose to create their own controls and
>>interfaces, though their is usually no reason to do this.
>>Original message:
>>>As I stated in another note, it is fair to say that Microsoft Office
>>>products are not accessible on the MAC, but it probably is
>>>not fair to say that they are not accessible because VoiceOver doesn't
>>>support them.  VoiceOver probably can't support them as
>>>they are written.  We have lots of software on the Windows platform
>>>that screen readers simply can't support for one reason or
>>>another.  An example is older versions of Open Office which did not
>>>work with screen readers on Windows even with Java support.
>>>That seems to be changing, but there are still rough edges to say the
>>>least.
>>
>>>Best regards,
>>
>>>Steve Jacobson
>>
>>>On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 14:02:11 +0100, Rafal Charlampowicz wrote:
>>
>>>>I was going to have Mac at my work, but it turned out that I needed
>>>>to use
>>>>MS Outlook and a few other MS applications. I learnt that Voice Over
>>>>supports none of them.
>>>>So deciding on Mac on should check if he or shee still would be able
>>>>to do
>>>>his or her job.
>>
>>>>--
>>>>Rafal
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>-----Oryginalna wiadomoÅ:Ä!-----
>>>>From: Ray Foret Jr
>>>>Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 3:41 PM
>>>>To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,GUI Talk Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Federal Circuit Court affirmed theUS
>>>>PatentOffice
>>>>Decision invalidating FreedomScientific's patent and eliminating their
>>>>claims against GW Micro
>>
>>>>www.blindcooltech.com
>>>>and search for "Mac demo"
>>
>>>>Those recordings are a little out of date now; but, they do provide an
>>>>excelent overview of the basics.  Heck, that's how I learned.  IN fact,
>>>>those recordings are how I decided to go for the Mac over windows 7.
>>
>>
>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>>>Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>>>Skype name:
>>>>barefootedray
>>
>>>>On Oct 31, 2012, at 9:22 AM, "Hoffman, Allen" <Allen.Hoffman at HQ.DHS.GOV>
>>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>>I believe head to head NVDA and JAWS are nearing one another.
>>>>>I keep thinking NVDA will pull ahead, but I don't believe it has
>>>>>just yet.
>>>>>My personal opinion of voiceOver on Mac is that it is darned
>>>>>difficult to
>>>>>learn, but may provide pretty good accessibility.  I found IPhone
>>>>>hard to
>>>>>learn when learning only on Ipad, but when I used IPhone it seemed
>>>>>easier.
>>>>>I can do most things now on IPhone, but can't translate this knowledge
>>>>>well to the Mac environment.  If someone has a tutorial that isn't
>>>>>excruciatingly slow that teaches voiceOver and Mac at the same time
>>>>>and is
>>>>>not feature by feature based, e.g. there are a lot of walk throughs
>>>>>which
>>>>>teach invidiaul features, but I think I need a ground up tutorial
>>>>>better
>>>>>than that built in to the VoiceOver itself, please post an URL.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
>>>>>Arrigo
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:28 PM
>>>>>To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US
>>>>>PatentOffice Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and
>>>>>eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>>
>>>>>As far as whether the expensive screen readers have better application
>>>>>support, it depends on what apps you are using. For scanning, that's
>>>>>easy,
>>>>>docuscan plus has a version for the mac.
>>>>>On Oct 30, 2012, at 3:24 PM, Gerald Levy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>Again, I would challenge your assertion that a Mac can do things
>>>>>>better
>>>>>>than a Windows computer.  For instance, there is no Mac text to speech
>>>>>>app that is remotely comparable to Open Book or Kurzweil 1000.  And if
>>>>>>Macs are so superior to Windows machines, why haven't they been
>>>>>>embraced
>>>>>>by business users and government agencies?  You still get what you pay
>>>>>>for.  While the Mac with Voice Over and the free and low cost
>>>>>>commercial
>>>>>>screen readers can do many things well, they nevertheless lack the
>>>>>>panaply of features and compatibility with third-party programs
>>>>>>that the
>>>>>>more expensive commercial screen readers offer.
>>
>>>>>>Gerald
>>
>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Arrigo" <n0oxy at charter.net>
>>>>>>To: <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:40 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] Fwd: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US
>>>>>>PatentOffice Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and
>>>>>>eliminating their claims against GW Micro
>>
>>
>>>>>>>Yes, the mac is my primary computing platform for home use. Some may
>>>>>>>disagree with me here, and that's fine, but, I think the days of the
>>>>>>>expensive screen reader are numbered anyway. We now have system
>>>>>>>access
>>>>>>>for windows at a much cheaper price, and NVDA is free and
>>>>>>>continues to
>>>>>>>get better and better. We also have voiceover on the mac which does
>>>>>>>things as good as the windows screen readers and in some cases
>>>>>>>better.
>>>>>>>Microsoft has also included a much better version of narrator in
>>>>>>>Windows
>>>>>>>8. The reasons for purchasing the expensive screen readers are simply
>>>>>>>disappearing.
>>>>>>>I think as time goes by, more and more computing will take place on
>>>>>>>mobile devices such as smart phones and tablets. Many of these
>>>>>>>provide
>>>>>>>accessibility out of the box. I'm not saying the desktop or laptop
>>>>>>>computer will be gone next year, but I do think over the next few
>>>>>>>years
>>>>>>>we will start to see that trend take place.
>>>>>>>Original message:
>>>>>>>>I could not agree more Mike!  Spot on.  IN fact, it was things
>>>>>>>>such as
>>>>>>>>this along with your Mac recordings that caused me to switch to
>>>>>>>>my Mac
>>>>>>>>back in November of 2009.  Justice has truly been served.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>
>>>>>>>>Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>
>>>>>>>>Skype name:
>>>>>>>>barefootedray
>>
>>>>>>>>On Oct 30, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Mike Arrigo <n0oxy at charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>That was definitely a long time coming. Freedom science fiction got
>>>>>>>>>what was coming to them, that law suit never should have been
>>>>>>>>>filed in
>>>>>>>>>the first place. First they sued Serotek and then GW-micro. This is
>>>>>>>>>one reason among others why I will never purchase or recommend
>>>>>>>>>Freedom
>>>>>>>>>Scientific products, especially when their are much better products
>>>>>>>>>available. A part of me thinks that GW-Micro should counter sue to
>>>>>>>>>recover the costs associated with this, but I guess in a way that
>>>>>>>>>would make them no better. At least Justice was served. The
>>>>>>>>>bible has
>>>>>>>>>something very good to say about things like this. I'm paraphrasing
>>>>>>>>>here, but, basically it says that those who try to ensnare and trap
>>>>>>>>>others by digging a hole will fall in to it themselves. I'd say
>>>>>>>>>that's
>>>>>>>>>what happened here.
>>>>>>>>>Original message:
>>>>>>>>>>The following message appeared on several of GW Micro's public
>>>>>>>>>>lists yesterday.  Reference is made to a large MP3 file that can
>>>>>>>>>>be downloaded to hear the arguments.  Some had trouble finding the
>>>>>>>>>>file from the URL provided, so later this URL was provided to get
>>>>>>>>>>more closely to the MP3 file:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>http://oralarguments.cafc.uscourts.gov/default.aspx?fl=2012-1145.m
>>>>>>>>>>p3
>>
>>>>>>>>>>==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>>
>>>>>>>>>>From: gw-news at gwmicro.com [mailto:gw-news at gwmicro.com]
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 9:46 AM
>>>>>>>>>>To: gw-news at gwmicro.com
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: Federal Circuit Court affirmed the US Patent Office
>>>>>>>>>>Decision invalidating Freedom Scientific's patent and eliminating
>>>>>>>>>>their claims against GW Micro
>>
>>>>>>>>>>In July of 2008 on my first day back in the office after the Sight
>>>>>>>>>>Village conference, someone entered our office and handed me a
>>>>>>>>>>summons and notification of a lawsuit brought on by Freedom
>>>>>>>>>>Scientific against GW Micro.  They received a patent for certain
>>>>>>>>>>screen reader features and our response was that Window-Eyes had
>>>>>>>>>>those same basic features several years prior to their patent.
>>>>>>>>>>This was the beginning of a long waste of time and money, which
>>>>>>>>>>finally came to a close last week.  GW Micro is vindicated - it's
>>>>>>>>>>over - the court decided in our favor!
>>
>>>>>>>>>>I won't provide all the details but in general, the Patent Office
>>>>>>>>>>reexamined their patent at our request and found it to be invalid
>>>>>>>>>>in view of prior art.  Both the patent examiner and the Board of
>>>>>>>>>>Appeals in the Patent Office came to the same conclusion
>>>>>>>>>>- the patent is invalid.  Despite those results, they asked for a
>>>>>>>>>>federal court to review the decision and again they came to the
>>>>>>>>>>same conclusion as everyone else.  You may listen to this final
>>>>>>>>>>argument by going to http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/oral-argument-
>>>>>>>>>>recordings/search/audio.html search for Appeal 2012-1145, listen
>>>>>>>>>>to the MP3 file and you will easily come to the same conclusion as
>>>>>>>>>>everyone else.  Their original patent should not have been granted
>>>>>>>>>>in the first place and without the patent, there are no grounds
>>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>their lawsuit against GW Micro.  If you decide to listen to that
>>>>>>>>>>file, you should be aware that it is a large file, which will take
>>>>>>>>>>some time to download.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>We want to thank you all for the many words of encouragement,
>>>>>>>>>>support
>>>>>>>>>>and prayers that we've received over these past 4 years.
>>>>>>>>>>Not one person ever suggested that we should do anything other
>>>>>>>>>>than fight and defend ourselves.  However, the sad fact is that
>>>>>>>>>>actions like this hurt all of us.  This caused a waste of
>>>>>>>>>>dollars and
>>>>>>>>>>time for both our companies, which could have been spent improving
>>>>>>>>>>existing products and developing new ones.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>GW Micro chooses to take the path of creating new products,
>>>>>>>>>>features and innovations and our recent release of our Window-Eyes
>>>>>>>>>>8 public beta illustrates that perfectly.  If you haven't done so
>>>>>>>>>>already, I hope you will give it a try.  Simply doing that will
>>>>>>>>>>show
>>>>>>>>>>your support of GW Micro.  We promise to continue to work hard and
>>>>>>>>>>conduct business in an honest and proper fashion.  The
>>>>>>>>>>reputation of
>>>>>>>>>>GW Micro will never be litigation instead of innovation.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>>>>>>>>>ter.net
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
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>>>>>>net
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Bud Schwab
W 6 Z Y P
Malibu, California