[gui-talk] NV Access Announces Release of NVDA 2014.1

Hoffman, Allen allen.hoffman at hq.dhs.gov
Thu Mar 27 21:03:48 UTC 2014 

Supporting applications which are basically inaccessible is something we have to expect assistive technologies to do, but on the other hand, that's what money buys.  Screen readers which provide good access to applications which are well behaved is great but can be done at way less cost overall.  One down side from assistive technologies that allow access to actually inaccessible applications is that vendors don't fix them because they don't have to.  Kind of chicken and egg thing but still an ongoing problem out there.  As far as employment, if an employer can't find funds to get a free screen reader you probably won't get a job there either.  If you have to put up $1,000 for a screen reader license to be able to work seems like a small investment in the long run.  Once you've proved your value you can certainly request the reasonable accommodation from the employer as well.  As a long time Federal employee I've been lucky enough to stay out of such problems, but recognize they certainly exist.  I recommend people be prepared to work which may include having assistive technology ready to use on the job--but make it clear you expect the employer to pick up such tabs after any initial burn in time.  I'd hate to hear someone say they can't work because every job they applied for wouldn't buy the assistive technology and they wouldn't do it to be ready either.  It isn't a perfect world.

Anyway I would like to see a continuously updated market research document with feature by feature evaluation of screen readers for various uses.  Each time a wscreen reader supports a new application it can get tossed on the list of features and comparison of the three major products provided.  I remember when CakeWalk support was big in JAWS for a small group of CakeWalk users, so that feature would show CakeWalk support, and a ranking, outstanding to poor or none for each screen reader out there.  As information is available it gets filled in and updated.  If someone wants to create this be my guest but I am working on it in my rare spare time.  Could possibly be a Wikipedia page too and I'm sure would set off some real firestorms among contributors, but that would be a great place to do such firestorming as that is the topic of the thing.  









-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 4:46 PM
To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [gui-talk] NV Access Announces Release of NVDA 2014.1

Allen and others,

First, I don't think that the "You get what you Pay for" was meant to diminish the efforts of NVDA.  It has a lot to offer and many people are working very hard to maintain it.  When you go the free route, you definitely get less technical support, but this isn't a problem in many cases.  Also, if you make a features list, you will find a lot of overlap between screen readers.  Where I am very concerned is in employment.  It is very common for companies to lag behind in terms of the versions of the software that they use.  As I understand it, NVDA does not use an off-screen model (OSM) to get any of the information it needs.  This is the future direction, and many applications are now using newer techniques to display data.  JFW and Window-Eyes are also having to use these mechanisms as well.  However, both of these screen readers still maintain the use of older techniques that allow them to work on software that does not work with NVDA.  I use several applications every day on the job where Window-Eyes and JFW work well but NVDA does not.  This is not a slam at NVDA at all.  Narrator wouldn't work, either.  I am just a little concerned as to how the emphasis on free screen readers affects those of us using screen readers in somewhat nitch markets as is often the case on the job.  I should clarify that I am a Window- Eyes user, and at this point, it works for me pretty much anywhere JFW does.  I think it is unrealistic for me to think that all consumers should have to pay a high price so that I can maintain my employability, but I do worry that state agencies will think that buying a screen reader is unreasonable, and that if a job site doesn't work with NVDA then it is not a reasonable goal for employment.  I think we have to be very careful to look at more than the price tag or even features lists as we move forward.  We also have to look at more than what we do at home to determine what value to place on a screen reader.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:23:43 +0000, Hoffman, Allen wrote:

>All:

>Until someone puts up an actual features list and then completes 
>answers for at least NVDA, JAWS, and Windows
Eyes this thread is a waste of text.  I am working on building such a list which can be maintained for use.  Each screen reader has a list of features, each has unique features to offer for specific situations and end-user audiences, and each has a different price point.  For my two cents worth NVDA does almost everything I need at home, could do almost everything I need at work.  JAWS will meet my needs at home well and at work mostly, but pricing is a challenge for home use.  Windows eyes would meet my needs at home well and mostly at work as well, but again pricing can be challenging if you are not using the free version.  Windows eyes browser support could be improved, and NVDA could improve some in Office.  I'd like to see someone have a working touchscreen keyboard input solution for Windows 8 tablets soon as it kind of defeats the tablet purpose to have to connect a keyboard.  
JAWS has great interoperability with Magic which is not the case with NVDA or Windows Eyes.  JAWS has great multi- lingual support, but then I believe NVDA  has great multilingual support as well.  I honestly don't know about windows eyes multilingual support so can't comment.  NVDA, JAWS, and Windows eyes all have solid scriptability, but JAWS scripters are more commonly available, while the others can be driven by more common programming languages.  So, when ou all post simplistic analysis of this market you are not thinking about what the products offer, what their end-user audiences do en masse, and aren't really being helpful for a wide range of decision- makers.  I do believe the days of expensive screen reading software for average daily use is coming to a close as the common denominator of features can be had for free now on multiple platforms.  For costly solutions meeting specific challenging customer needs will have to be the selling point--as it always has been.  In the starting days of Windows screen readers "any" feature was helpful, but now it's a mature market with only nitch features to fill the gaps.



>-----Original Message-----
>From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rick 
>Alfaro
>Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 1:13 PM
>To: Discussion of the Graphical User Interface, GUI Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [gui-talk] NV Access Announces Release of NVDA 2014.1

>I've heard that saying for sure but in this case it couldn't be further 
>from the truth. I'm not a full time NVDA user but am familiar enough 
>with it to see how good it is and how much work these folks have put 
>into the product. You get what you pay for just doesn't apply in any 
>way shape or form when it comes to NVDA. JMO.


>Best Regards,

>Rick alfaro

>On 3/27/2014 11:15 AM, Rob Kaiser wrote:
>> ALso, you have heard the saying "
>> You get what you pay for." I'm sure this software is good in some 
>> cases, but in a work setting, there is nothing like jaws which hI 
>> have used since 1998 or one of the other speech synthisizers.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Freeman
>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 1:14 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of the Graphical User Interface,GUI Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] NV Access Announces Release of NVDA 2014.1
>>
>> Beware! Free ain't free! If you want anything but Microsoft's voices 
>> for WE, you'll have to pay for them. And there's *no* human support 
>> provided. I do not quarrel with this; I merely believe that we should 
>> call a spade a spade and not guild the lilly. Moreover, while NVDA is 
>> getting better, it still isn't there for serious work in job 
>> settings.
>>
>> How about let's all of us refrain from prognosticating about the 
>> future of this or that screen-reader or firm and celebrate what we have.
>>
>> Mike Freeman
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gui-talk [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike 
>> Arrigo
>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 12:20 PM
>> To: gui-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [gui-talk] NV Access Announces Release of NVDA 2014.1
>>
>> This screen reader keeps getting better and better. Really, there is 
>> little if any reason to pay for an expensive screen reader anymore, 
>> between this and the free version of window eyes that is available if 
>> you have office
>> 2010 or newer.
>> Original message:
>>
>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: NV Access News [noreply+announce at nvaccess.org]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 5:36 AM
>>>> To: Andrews, David B (DEED)
>>>> Subject: NV Access Announces Release of NVDA 2014.1
>>
>>>> Is this email not displaying correctly? View it in your
>>>>
>> browser<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIsInJlcG9ydCI
>> 6IjExMT
>>
>> MiLCJ1cmxJRCI6IjgzIiwidmlldyI6ImxpbmsifQ/>.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Version 2014.1 of the free NVDA screen reading software developed 
>>>> by NV Access has today been released. This release contains several 
>>>> new features and plenty of bug fixes, covering Microsoft Excel and 
>>>> Powerpoint, Java, web support and much more.
>>
>>>> With this release, NV Access continues to ensure that blind and 
>>>> vision impaired people, regardless of their location, language or 
>>>> economic situation, can gain access to computers, thus widening the 
>>>> possibilities for education, employment and socialization.
>>
>>>> NV Access relies on financial support from organisations and users.
>>>> Please consider helping the Australian-based charity to continue 
>>>> lowering the barriers to technology for blind and vision impaired 
>>>> people by becoming a monthly
>>>>
>> donor<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIsInJlcG9ydCI6I
>> jExMTMi
>>
>> LCJ1cmxJRCI6Ijg0IiwidmlldyI6ImxpbmsifQ/>.
>>
>>>> To download a copy of NVDA, please visit our 
>>>> Download<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIsInJlcG9y
>>>> dC I6IjExMTMiLCJ1cmxJRCI6Ijg1IiwidmlldyI6ImxpbmsifQ/>
>>>> page or visit http://www.nvaccess.org/download
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Twitter<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIsInJlcG9yd
>>>> CI 6IjExMTMiLCJ1cmxJRCI6Ijg2IiwidmlldyI6ImxpbmsifQ/>
>>>> |
>>>> Facebook<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIsInJlcG9y
>>>> dC I6IjExMTMiLCJ1cmxJRCI6Ijg3IiwidmlldyI6ImxpbmsifQ/>
>>>> |
>>>> LinkedIn<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIsInJlcG9y
>>>> dC I6IjExMTMiLCJ1cmxJRCI6Ijg4IiwidmlldyI6ImxpbmsifQ/>
>>>> ________________________________
>>
>>>> www.nvaccess.org<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIs
>>>> In JlcG9ydCI6IjExMTMiLCJ1cmxJRCI6Ijg5IiwidmlldyI6ImxpbmsifQ/>
>>
>>>> Help keep the NVDA project alive by donating to NV Access today:
>>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/donate<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/ey
>>>> Jp 
>>>> ZCI6IjMxNyIsInJlcG9ydCI6IjExMTMiLCJ1cmxJRCI6IjkwIiwidmlldyI6Imxpbms
>>>> if
>>>> Q/>
>>
>>
>>>> Unsubscribe<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIsInJlc
>>>> G9
>>>> ydCI6IjExMTMiLCJ1cmxJRCI6IjAiLCJ2aWV3IjoibWFuYWdlIiwibGlzdElEIjoiMT
>>>> A0 NCIsImFjdGlvbiI6InVuc3Vic2NyaWJlIn0/>
>>>> | Manage
>>>> Subscription<http://www.nvaccess.org/sendpress/eyJpZCI6IjMxNyIsInJl
>>>> cG 
>>>> 9ydCI6IjExMTMiLCJ1cmxJRCI6IjAiLCJ2aWV3IjoibWFuYWdlIiwibGlzdElEIjoiM
>>>> TA
>>>> 0NCIsImFjdGlvbiI6IiJ9/>
>>
>>
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