[humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy does not discriminate
James Brown
jbrown321 at comcast.net
Sat Feb 21 03:46:35 UTC 2009
Hi Marion,
First, I want to say that I have a lot of respect for you and others on this
list who have given so much to the blind community, and anything I say is
sincere without a tone of animosity.
But there is a logical inconsistency that I am trying to get a grasp on.
If you believe that the use of a long white cane is the fundamental skill of
mobility, yet use a dog 90% of the time, by your actions are you denying
your own words?
Marion, you used the counselor's favorite metaphor. We do have a toolbox
full of tools. We have a hammer, which you say is like cane mobility.
Building on that metaphor, you say that a house can't be built without a
hammer.
But what if a guide dog is like a nailgun? Would you be able to build the
house using the nailgun instead of the hammer? Do they not have the same
purpose and serve the same function? I'm sure that they both have their
pros and cons, but why is cane use so fundamental?
You listed some places where it would be more convenient to use a cane, but,
with the new silent cars becoming more and more prevalent, I can see guide
dogs saving the lives of many blind people.
can anyone give more reasons to show how "the use of a long white cane is
the fundamental skill of mobility"?
Can everybody see the comedy in this? I've never been a dog lover, and I'm
defending guide dogs. Marion is the head of the Guide dog association, and
she's defending cane travel, smile!
Ps, my server is getting me the messages at all different times, so I am
sorry for any strange sequences of replies.
In love and jest,
James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "Human Services Mailing List" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy
does not discriminate
> James,
> As the President of the National Association of Guide Dog users, I
> would like to offer my comments to answer your questions. I believe that
> the use of a long white cane is the fundamental skill of mobility. Unless
> one is able to travel with a cane, one will not be fully competent with a
> guide dog. In addition, there are many circumstances in which a guide dog
> is not the most appropriate choice for mobility tools, e.g., going to a
> concert, roller skating, or going to someone's house who would prefer to
> not have a dog in their residence.
> When a person goes to guide dog school, they expect to learn to use a
> dog. These people are not upset when they are asked to put their canes
> aside during training so as to learn how to effectively use the guide dog!
> I do not understand why people are so upset that a training facility that
> focuses upon using the white cane wants you to put aside your guide dog
> for a time in order to focus upon that skill! As I mentioned earlier,
> unless a person has a variety of mobility tools and learns how to make use
> of them for their specific circumstances, that person is not fully
> independent. A carpenter has many tools in his arsenal and has learned to
> use each one, as each has a specific application. you cannot build a house
> with a hammer, but you need a hammer in order to build that house! JMHO!
>
> fraternally,
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide dog Users
> National Federation of the Blind
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Brown" <jbrown321 at comcast.net>
> To: "Human Services Mailing List" <humanser at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy
> does not discriminate
>
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Can you share some knowledge with someone who has always been a cane
>> user?
>>
>> Setting aside all the legalities, what does everyone think about this
>> case? Any die hard cane users out there? How about you guide dog lovers,
>> what do you think?
>>
>> Is there a significant difference between using a cane or dog? Is either
>> one really that perfect?
>>
>> Are we trying to shape other blind people into our own image, all the
>> while damaging the individuality of the blind population?
>>
>> whether it's a stick or a dog, aren't we all depending on something?
>>
>> Is this a kind of twisted psychology, or is it more about being
>> practical?
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> JB
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Wilson,Joanne (by way of David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)"
>> <JWilson at nfb.org>
>> To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:24 PM
>> Subject: [humanser] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy does
>> not discriminate
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------
>> From: Brammer, Robert [AG] [mailto:rbrammer at ag.state.ia.us]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:53 PM
>> To: Brammer, Robert [AG]
>> Subject: Atty. Gen. release: Jury finds IA Dept.
>> for Blind's guide dog policy does not discriminate
>>
>> To News Editors. From Bob Brammer (Iowa
>> Attorney General's Office - 515-281-6699.)
>> Please find a release pasted below. This will be
>> posted soon at
>> <http://www.iowaattorneygeneral.org/>www.IowaAttorneyGeneral.org
>> . A jury entered a verdict Wednesday in this
>> case in Polk County District Court.
>> Best regards, Bram
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> For immediate release - Thursday, February 19, 2009.
>> Contact Bob Brammer - 515-281-6699
>>
>> Jury finds Iowa Department for the Blind's
>> Guide Dog Policy Does Not Discriminate
>>
>> Des Moines. A Polk County jury has
>> rejected a Des Moines woman's claim that the
>> State of Iowa Department for the Blind
>> discriminated against her by refusing her request
>> to use a guide dog while she attended the
>> Department's orientation and adjustment training program.
>>
>> The Department for the Blind
>> orientation and training program is a
>> comprehensive program that utilizes a totally
>> non-visual approach to teaching blindness
>> skills. Students with partial vision are
>> required to wear eyeshades to prevent reliance
>> upon any visual cues during training. Department
>> policies prohibit the use of any visual aids
>> within the orientation and training program,
>> including guide dogs. The Department has no
>> objection to guide dogs in other situations.
>>
>> Stephanie Dohmen, who is legally
>> blind, attended the program for several months
>> beginning in September 2000 and sought to
>> re-enter the program in June 2002 accompanied by her guide dog.
>>
>> Dohmen claimed in her lawsuit that
>> the Department's policy violated her rights under
>> the Iowa Civil Rights Act and under federal laws
>> that prohibit discrimination on the basis of disability.
>>
>> After a six-day trial, the
>> eight-person jury rejected Dohmen's claims in a verdict entered
>> Wednesday.
>>
>>
>> The Department for the Blind, which
>> was represented in the trial by the Iowa
>> Attorney General, argued that a totally
>> non-visual approach - and training without
>> assistance of a guide-dog or other visual aids -
>> is the most effective approach for
>> visually-impaired persons who are learning skills
>> and techniques for dealing with blindness.
>>
>> The Department places no limitations
>> upon the use of guide dogs in other settings,
>> including in the Department for the Blind
>> building in downtown Des Moines. For example,
>> Karen Keninger, the Director of the Department,
>> uses a guide dog, and the dog accompanied
>> Keninger during her testimony at the trial.
>>
>> The orientation program typically
>> includes about six months of full-time training
>> in various problem-solving skills, such as
>> cane-travel on public streets, using Braille,
>> using computers, and dealing with many other situations.
>>
>> The Department for the Blind's
>> orientation and adjustment program was
>> established in 1959 and is considered by many to
>> be one of the most effective in the country.
>>
>> During the trial, the State
>> Department for the Blind presented testimony from
>> Joanne Wilson and Frederic K. Schroeder, each a
>> former Commissioner of the U.S. Rehabilitation
>> Services Administration, which oversees programs
>> for the blind around the country.
>>
>> "Iowa's orientation program
>> profoundly changes lives," said Wilson, who also
>> is Executive Director of the National Federation
>> of the Blind. "It works. It's a cutting-edge
>> program and a model for other states." Wilson is
>> a Webster City native and ISU graduate who went
>> through the Iowa Department for the Blind's orientation program herself.
>>
>> Schroeder said: "To me the central
>> point is that individuals have a choice in the
>> type of training they take. While programs must
>> and should make reasonable accommodations, they
>> cannot be required to alter the fundamentals of the program."
>>
>> - 30 -
>>
>>
>>
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